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My maternal grandfather is Alfred Joyner who died in 1963 in Tenterden, Kent. We are unable to find any evidence of his birth in 1905 or life before he married my grandmother Elsie Burchett. Their wedding certificate shows his father is a William Henry Joyner, occupation Merchant seaman but I'm still not able to make a link!
Anyone have any ideas were to look from here? :-0

Hi Martha.
Have you any idea of his birthplace (however vague) or if he had any siblings?
Jan

There's this one in 1905 - does Mile End seem likely? You'd have to buy the cert to see who this one's father was:

Births Sep 1905 (>99%)
Joyner Alfred Mile End 1c 416

Saw that one Argyllgran, but there is this, sadly - not that it's def the same child, but anyway:

Deaths Sep 1905 (>99%)
Joyner Alfred 0 Mile End 1c 270

Jan

What was his middle name? His death was registered Alfred H.

This could be William Henry - but there's no sign of Alfred:


1911 England Census about William Henry Joyner
Name: William Henry Joyner
Age in 1911: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Bermondsey
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 20 Keetons Rd, Bermondsey S E
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 21
Estimated Marriage Year: 1890
Occupation: LIGHTERMAN <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration district: St Olave (Bermondsey)
Registration District Number: 24
Sub-registration district: Bermondsey
ED, institution, or vessel: 30
Piece: 1898
Household Members:
Name Age
William Henry Joyner 49
Harriet Joyner 44
Claressa Harriet Joyner 19
Rose Elizabeth Joyner 17
William Henry Joyner 14
Edith Violet Joyner 12
Elsie Victoria Joyner 10
Lilz Ivy Joyner 7
Thomas Alfred Conderoy 84 - father-in-law
Elizabeth Conderoy 40 - sister-in-law

How old was Elsie when they married? Just wondering if he lied about his age if there was a fair age difference.........

Do the witnesses to the wedding give any clues?

There is also the possibility that he was registered under another surname and assumed the name of a stepfather, or even the possibility the father never existed and was invented to "save face" with the new in-laws.

Is it possible that William Henry (junior) - in 1911 above - could be Alfred?
Maybe known as Alfred in the family to distinguish him from his father, and then lied about his age as Flip suggests???

Grasping at straws here!

Or could he have been an illegitimate son of a William Henry Joyner but registered under some other name, and took his father's surname later?

EDIT - Having said that, and having had a look at the various William Joyners in 1911, the lighterman in Bermondsey seems to be the only possible one.

Thanks for the help, I had seen the William Henry from Bermondsey and also think it's the most likely as according to my mum he mentioned having a brother William and a sister Victoria, and it's the closest I can get to a William working on water! But the only one of my relatives that are living ever mentions meeting any of his side of the family, a sister came to visit when he was small and that's it.It's very frustrating!
The Alfred H is my grandfather and I believe the H is for Henry like his father.
Alfred was 25 and Elsie was 22 when they got married. The marriage was witnessed by Elsie's mother Emily and a Winifred Ivy Harris.

I don't think the 1911 census is the right family - image states they have had 6 children, all present on the census. Also the father died in 1916 at Cane Hill Asylum, probate granted to his widow.

Not that I can offer any other posibilities though :-S

I still think the family is possible as it states on Alfred and Elsie's marriage certificate from 1930 that his father was dead.
But I am starting to think he was adopted or something after the 1911 census, perhaps from another branch of the family.
I'm also trying to search merchant seamen records, but the only William Henry shows the surname being spelt Joiner and comes from Liverpool, so will search this line as well.

There is a William Henry Joyner, born London 1892 in the merchant navy WW1 records but I didn't think it was connected. He is on 1911 census with his parents Charles and Katherine, a sea-going steward.

William Henry Joyner
Birth Date:1892
Birth Place:London
Year Issued:1914-1925

You could be right about him being taken in by the family previously posted though, but I can't see him showing up of the ERs with Harriet - although she remained at the same address for many years.

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/living_relatives/thread/1352780

Jacqueline last post on here was Aug 2014 so you might like to send a message as your post may not be seen.

I'm aware it's an old thread.

I was drawing attention to the new thread on the same subject