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Joseph Augustine Baron 1864 Blackburn Lancashire

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

mgnv

mgnv Report 30 Aug 2014 19:27

Jean - although Potty cites LancsBMD as one source of her info, she ddoesn't cite the other, viz:
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/

Marriage: 21 Jun 1813 St Wilfrid, Ribchester, Lancs.
Simon Gudgeon - (X), of this Parish
Sarah Greenalls - (X), of this Parish
Witness: John Curtis, (X); Thos. Gregson
Married by Banns by: Js. Quartley Vicar
Notes: with consent of parents
Register: Marriages 1813-1837, Page 6, Entry 16
Source: LDS Film 1470814

Marriage: 17 Nov 1817 St Wilfrid, Ribchester, Lancs.
Simon Gudgeon - (X), of this Parish
Grace Helm - (X), of this Parish
Witness: John Simpson; Thos. Gregson
Married by Banns by: J Quartley Vicar
Notes: with consent of Parents
Register: Marriages 1813-1837, Page 50, Entry 148
Source: LDS Film 1470814

[There were 26 marrs @ St Wilfred's in 1817, and Thos. Gregson was a witness at all 26 - I would call him a "professional witness", maybe a mate or relly of the parish clerk]

lan-opc also has:

Baptism: 31 Aug 1823 St Paul, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Sarah Gudgeon - Daur of Simon Gudgeon & Sarah
Born: 8 Aug 1823
Abode: Blackburn
Source: LDS Film 1470928

It looks to me like this is Potty's spaced out hit, but that is the Ancestry transcription.

Ancestry have several collections of relevance for this area, specifically:
Lancashire, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812
Lancashire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911
Lancashire, England, Confirmations, 1856-1922
Lancashire, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1986
Lancashire, England, Extracted Parish Records
Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936
Lancashire, England, Selected Parish Registers, 1545-1812
Lancashire, England, Vagrant Passes, 1801-1835

More importantly, Ancestry has matching images for these, and St Wilfred's is in their collections.

[Ancestry transcriptions contain the lines:
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map: View this parish
Register Type: Parish Registers
or
Register Type: Bishop's Transcripts
assuming the poster hasn't editted them out - there's no reason to keep the map link in the transcription, but it's useful to know if it's from the OPRs or the BTs.
The BTs are the church's own transcription of the OPRs and form their backup copy.
They're supposed to be identical, but aren't always.
Here's an example:

Baptism: 13 Dec 1830 St Wilfrid, Ribchester, Lancs.
Mary Hesmondhalgh - D of Thomas Hesmondhalgh & Margaret
Born: 12 Dec 1830
Abode: New Row
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: B Haslewood Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1851, Page 142, Entry 1136
Source: LDS Film 94020

On the OPR entry is written: "Returned to the Bishop's Court", but this is absent from the BTs.
My guess is it's nothing to do with my entry, but refers to the travel plans of the vicar.
He conducts no marrs or baptisms until the new year, and no burials for 10 days.
Of course, burials can't wait, so one finds this entry

Burial: 19 Dec 1830 St Wilfrid, Ribchester, Lancashire, England
Buried by: T. Clarke Curate of Preston
[other dtails edited out]

I don't have an Ancestry sub, but Ancestry had a freebie last Sat/Sun, and I had access then.]

Jacqueline

Jacqueline Report 30 Aug 2014 14:56

you say that 'he' has been in touch with you, so have you replied to 'his' message?

That's the best way to discover what connection there is - if any.

Potty

Potty Report 30 Aug 2014 14:24

There is this marriage to a Grace:

Simon Gudgeon - (X), this Parish
Grace Helm - (X), this Parish
Witness: John Simpson; Thos. Gregson
Married by Banns by: J Quartley Vicar
Notes: with consent of Parents
Register: Marriages 1813-1837, Page 50, Entry 148
Source: LDS Film 1470814

Flip, Ancestry does have images of St Albans Catholic Church, Blackburn. There are some baptisms for the two of the children of Simon and Sarah Greenalls, I am paging through to see if I can find anymore.

Flip

Flip Report 30 Aug 2014 13:25

No, don't think that baptism is correct Potty - too early as is the parents marriage. Looking at the same family from 1851 census her mother appears to be Jean (or Gean) in 1841.

Edit, looking at the 1841 image I think her mother may have been called Grace. She was recorded as 40, but this would have been rounded down, and born in county.

ADDED: I very much doubt we'll find parish registrations if they were catholic - there are very few on-line.

Flip

Flip Report 30 Aug 2014 13:21

A possibility for Sarah in 1851, but only one of marriage certificates would confirm her father's name/occupation:

Sarah Gudgeon
Age:20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation:Daughter
Father's Name:Simon Gudgeon
Gender:Female
Where born:Dutton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish:Blackburn
Ecclesiastical parish:St John
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island:Lancashire
Country:England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration district:Blackburn
Sub-registration district:Blackburn
ED, institution, or vessel:1dd
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number:31
Piece:2259
Folio:280
Page Number:10
Household Members:NameAge

Simon Gudgeon 54 (Shoemaker)
Simon Gudgeon 26
Sarah Gudgeon 20
Denis Gudgeon 19
Ellen Salthouse 75 (housekeeper, widow)
John Gudgeon 34

I see Potty beat me to this

:-D

Potty

Potty Report 30 Aug 2014 13:17

Parents' marriage?

Marriage: 21 Jun 1813 St Wilfrid, Ribchester, Lancashire, England
Simon Gudgeon - (X), this Parish
Sarah Greenalls - (X), this Parish
Witness: John Curtis, (X); Thos. Gregson
Married by Banns by: Js. Quartley Vicar
Notes: with consent of parents
Register: Marriages 1813-1837, Page 6, Entry 16
Source: LDS Film 1470814

Potty

Potty Report 30 Aug 2014 13:14

The only Sarah Gudgeon I can find:


1851 England Census
Sarah Gudgeon
Age:20
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1831
Relation:Daughter
Father's Name:Simon Gudgeon
Gender:Female
Where born:Dutton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish:Blackburn
Ecclesiastical parish:St John

Simon Gudgeon 54
Simon Gudgeon 26
Sarah Gudgeon 20
Denis Gudgeon 19
Ellen Salthouse 75
John Gudgeon 34

Her baptism:

Lancashire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911
about Sarah Gudgeon




Name:
Sarah Gudgeon

Birth Date:
8 Aug 1823

Baptism Date:
31 Aug 1823

Parish:
Blackburn, Lancashire, England

Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:

View this parish


Father:
Simon Gudgeon

Mother:
Sarah Gudgeon

Register Type:
Parish Registers

Reference Number:
PR 3340/1/21




ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 30 Aug 2014 13:03

And Joseph's sister Agnes was still unmarried in 1911:


1911 England Census about Agnes Baron
Name: Agnes Baron
Age in 1911: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Blackburn, Lancaster, England
Civil Parish: Preston
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 9 Moor Hall Preston
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Cotton Weaver
Registration district: Preston
Registration District Number: 476
Sub-registration district: North Preston
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Piece: 25282
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Baron 73
Agnes Baron 42
Mary Turner 59

Flip

Flip Report 30 Aug 2014 12:59

Sarah & William married in the Sept qtr 1857, and he died the followin quarter aged 25 and registered Blackburn. I don't think they had any children.

Potty

Potty Report 30 Aug 2014 12:55

Well done, Flip and ArgyllGran.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 30 Aug 2014 12:49

I wondered about that one, Potty, but there's still no marriage for Baron/Gudgeon.

[OOPS! Just seen Flip's post above]

If it's the right one, this is Thomas & parents:


1861 England Census about Thomas Baron
Name: Thomas Baron
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: 1838
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Baron
Mother's name: Margret Baron
Gender: Male
Where born: Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Blackburn
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image
Registration district: Blackburn
Sub-registration district: Blackburn
ED, institution, or vessel: 45
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 188
Piece: 3102
Folio: 52
Page Number: 38
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Baron 56
Margret Baron 51
Thomas Baron 23
Richd Baron 20
Mary Baron 4




1891 England Census about Thomas Baron
Name: Thomas Baron
Age: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Baron
Mother's name: Margaret Baron <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Gender: Male
Where born: Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Preston
Ecclesiastical parish: Emmanuel
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Preston
Sub-registration district: St Peter
ED, institution, or vessel: 10b
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3436
Folio: 71
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Baron 53
Sarah Baron 60
Joseph Baron 26
Francis Baron 24
Agnes Baron 22
Margaret Baron 82
Mary Turner 40 - lodger

Flip

Flip Report 30 Aug 2014 12:48

Sarah Gudgeon married William Wilkinson in 1857, Blackburn. She then married Thomas Baron (as Sarah wilkinson) in 1863 also in Blackburn. Both marriages were registry office or registrar attended (maybe catholic?)

I think Potty's 1871 census is correct.

ADDED: Looking at their ages on that 1871 census pointed to the possibility that either or both had been married previously.

Potty

Potty Report 30 Aug 2014 12:33

Think this is Joseph Augustine - see birth below for brother Francis and sister Agnes:


1871 England Census
about Joseph Baren

Name:Joseph Baren
[Joseph Baron]
Age:6
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1865
Relation:Son
Father's Name:Thomas Baren
Mother's name:Sarah Baren
Gender:Male
Where born:Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish:Lower Darwen
Ecclesiastical parish:St James
Town:Lower Darwen
County/Island:Lancashire
Country:England
Registration district:Blackburn
Sub-registration district:Darwen

Thomas Baren 33
Sarah Baren 39
Joseph Baren 6
Frances Baren 4
Agness Baren 2


Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1866

BARON Francis Blackburn Blackburn GUDGEON B/118/20

BARON Agnes Blackburn Blackburn GUDGEON

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 30 Aug 2014 12:20

But birth record is definitely 1864 (Lancsbmd version already posted by Potty):


England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Joseph Augustine Baron
Name: Joseph Augustine Baron
Registration Year: 1864
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Blackburn
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8e
Page: 329

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 30 Aug 2014 12:18

Death record gives YOB as c1865


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966 about Joseph Augustine Baron
Name: Joseph Augustine Baron
Probate Date: 2 Feb 1927
Death Date: 24 Jan 1926
Death Place: Lancashire, England
Registry: Lancashire, England

Probate to Agnes Baron, spinster.



England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about Joseph A Baron
Name: Joseph A Baron
Birth Date: abt 1865
Date of Registration: Mar 1926
Age at Death: 61
Registration district: Preston
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8e
Page: 639

Potty

Potty Report 30 Aug 2014 12:06

See that he married Sarah Develine at Preston Registry Office in 1891. Was the family Catholic? That might explain not being able to find a baptism. Do you know what his father's name was (from the birth and marriage certs?)

Potty

Potty Report 30 Aug 2014 11:50

Not sure if the Joseph in the 1871 is correct as there is this baptism for a Joseph with parents Thomas & Betty, but he was born April 1863:

Baptism: 26 Apr 1863 St Mark the Evangelist, Witton, Lancashire, England
Joseph Baron - [Child] of Thomas Baron & Betty
Born: 8 Apr 1863
Abode: Long Row Blackburn
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: Geo. H. Ashe
Register: Baptisms 1838 - 1871, Page 138, Entry 1274
Source: LDS Film 1470814

Edit - Long Row is the address for the family in the 1871, so doesn't look like that is the right Joseph. Did he marry?

Jean

Jean Report 30 Aug 2014 11:45

Yes Potty I have his mothers name as being Gudgeon but cant find a marriage between a Baron and Gudgeon the nearest I found was a Margaret Gudgeon born abt 1844 in Blackburn. I have some Joseph Barons in my tree but none called Joseph Augustine its the Augustine part that makes me think he could have been baptised somewhere else and not at the Cathedral

Potty

Potty Report 30 Aug 2014 11:32

This birth from Lancsbmd gives mother's maiden name:


Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1864

SurnameForename(s)Sub-DistrictRegisters AtMother's Maiden NameReference


BARON Joseph Augustine Blackburn Blackburn GUDGEON B/108/7

Maddie

Maddie Report 30 Aug 2014 11:21

1871

1871 England Census about Joseph Baron
Name: Joseph Baron
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thos Baron
Mother's name: Betty Baron
Gender: Male
Where born: Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Blackburn
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark
Town: Blackburn
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Blackburn
Sub-registration district: Blackburn
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 43
Piece: 4171
Folio: 49
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Thos Baron 38
Betty Baron 36
Thos Baron 14
Alice Baron 12
Ann Baron 11
Joseph Baron 7
Henry Baron 6
Adam Baron 4
Sarah Baron 2
Eliza Baron 6 Months