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Jean
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30 Aug 2014 11:15 |
Could anyone please find the parents and grandparents of the above he has been in touch with me regarding these unfortunately they are not part of the Barons I have. Jean
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Maddie
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30 Aug 2014 11:21 |
1871
1871 England Census about Joseph Baron Name: Joseph Baron Age: 7 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864 Relation: Son Father's Name: Thos Baron Mother's name: Betty Baron Gender: Male Where born: Blackburn, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Blackburn Ecclesiastical parish: St Mark Town: Blackburn County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: Blackburn Sub-registration district: Blackburn ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Household schedule number: 43 Piece: 4171 Folio: 49 Page Number: 9 Household Members: Name Age Thos Baron 38 Betty Baron 36 Thos Baron 14 Alice Baron 12 Ann Baron 11 Joseph Baron 7 Henry Baron 6 Adam Baron 4 Sarah Baron 2 Eliza Baron 6 Months
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Potty
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30 Aug 2014 11:32 |
This birth from Lancsbmd gives mother's maiden name:
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1864
SurnameForename(s)Sub-DistrictRegisters AtMother's Maiden NameReference
BARON Joseph Augustine Blackburn Blackburn GUDGEON B/108/7
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Jean
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30 Aug 2014 11:45 |
Yes Potty I have his mothers name as being Gudgeon but cant find a marriage between a Baron and Gudgeon the nearest I found was a Margaret Gudgeon born abt 1844 in Blackburn. I have some Joseph Barons in my tree but none called Joseph Augustine its the Augustine part that makes me think he could have been baptised somewhere else and not at the Cathedral
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Potty
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30 Aug 2014 11:50 |
Not sure if the Joseph in the 1871 is correct as there is this baptism for a Joseph with parents Thomas & Betty, but he was born April 1863:
Baptism: 26 Apr 1863 St Mark the Evangelist, Witton, Lancashire, England Joseph Baron - [Child] of Thomas Baron & Betty Born: 8 Apr 1863 Abode: Long Row Blackburn Occupation: Weaver Baptised by: Geo. H. Ashe Register: Baptisms 1838 - 1871, Page 138, Entry 1274 Source: LDS Film 1470814
Edit - Long Row is the address for the family in the 1871, so doesn't look like that is the right Joseph. Did he marry?
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Potty
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30 Aug 2014 12:06 |
See that he married Sarah Develine at Preston Registry Office in 1891. Was the family Catholic? That might explain not being able to find a baptism. Do you know what his father's name was (from the birth and marriage certs?)
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ArgyllGran
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30 Aug 2014 12:18 |
Death record gives YOB as c1865
England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966 about Joseph Augustine Baron Name: Joseph Augustine Baron Probate Date: 2 Feb 1927 Death Date: 24 Jan 1926 Death Place: Lancashire, England Registry: Lancashire, England
Probate to Agnes Baron, spinster.
England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about Joseph A Baron Name: Joseph A Baron Birth Date: abt 1865 Date of Registration: Mar 1926 Age at Death: 61 Registration district: Preston Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 8e Page: 639
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ArgyllGran
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30 Aug 2014 12:20 |
But birth record is definitely 1864 (Lancsbmd version already posted by Potty):
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Joseph Augustine Baron Name: Joseph Augustine Baron Registration Year: 1864 Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep Registration district: Blackburn Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 8e Page: 329
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Potty
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30 Aug 2014 12:33 |
Think this is Joseph Augustine - see birth below for brother Francis and sister Agnes:
1871 England Census about Joseph Baren
Name:Joseph Baren [Joseph Baron] Age:6 Estimated Birth Year:abt 1865 Relation:Son Father's Name:Thomas Baren Mother's name:Sarah Baren Gender:Male Where born:Blackburn, Lancashire, England Civil Parish:Lower Darwen Ecclesiastical parish:St James Town:Lower Darwen County/Island:Lancashire Country:England Registration district:Blackburn Sub-registration district:Darwen
Thomas Baren 33 Sarah Baren 39 Joseph Baren 6 Frances Baren 4 Agness Baren 2 Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1866
BARON Francis Blackburn Blackburn GUDGEON B/118/20
BARON Agnes Blackburn Blackburn GUDGEON
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Flip
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30 Aug 2014 12:48 |
Sarah Gudgeon married William Wilkinson in 1857, Blackburn. She then married Thomas Baron (as Sarah wilkinson) in 1863 also in Blackburn. Both marriages were registry office or registrar attended (maybe catholic?)
I think Potty's 1871 census is correct.
ADDED: Looking at their ages on that 1871 census pointed to the possibility that either or both had been married previously.
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ArgyllGran
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30 Aug 2014 12:49 |
I wondered about that one, Potty, but there's still no marriage for Baron/Gudgeon.
[OOPS! Just seen Flip's post above]
If it's the right one, this is Thomas & parents:
1861 England Census about Thomas Baron Name: Thomas Baron Age: 23 Estimated Birth Year: 1838 Relation: Son Father's Name: Thomas Baron Mother's name: Margret Baron Gender: Male Where born: Blackburn, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Blackburn Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Blackburn Sub-registration district: Blackburn ED, institution, or vessel: 45 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 188 Piece: 3102 Folio: 52 Page Number: 38 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Baron 56 Margret Baron 51 Thomas Baron 23 Richd Baron 20 Mary Baron 4
1891 England Census about Thomas Baron Name: Thomas Baron Age: 53 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah Baron Mother's name: Margaret Baron <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Gender: Male Where born: Blackburn, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Preston Ecclesiastical parish: Emmanuel County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: Preston Sub-registration district: St Peter ED, institution, or vessel: 10b Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 3436 Folio: 71 Page Number: 17 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Baron 53 Sarah Baron 60 Joseph Baron 26 Francis Baron 24 Agnes Baron 22 Margaret Baron 82 Mary Turner 40 - lodger
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Potty
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30 Aug 2014 12:55 |
Well done, Flip and ArgyllGran.
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Flip
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30 Aug 2014 12:59 |
Sarah & William married in the Sept qtr 1857, and he died the followin quarter aged 25 and registered Blackburn. I don't think they had any children.
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ArgyllGran
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30 Aug 2014 13:03 |
And Joseph's sister Agnes was still unmarried in 1911:
1911 England Census about Agnes Baron Name: Agnes Baron Age in 1911: 42 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869 Relation to Head: Daughter Gender: Female Birth Place: Blackburn, Lancaster, England Civil Parish: Preston County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: 9 Moor Hall Preston Marital Status: Single Occupation: Cotton Weaver Registration district: Preston Registration District Number: 476 Sub-registration district: North Preston ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Piece: 25282 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Baron 73 Agnes Baron 42 Mary Turner 59
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Potty
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30 Aug 2014 13:14 |
The only Sarah Gudgeon I can find:
1851 England Census Sarah Gudgeon Age:20 Estimated Birth Year:abt 1831 Relation:Daughter Father's Name:Simon Gudgeon Gender:Female Where born:Dutton, Lancashire, England Civil Parish:Blackburn Ecclesiastical parish:St John
Simon Gudgeon 54 Simon Gudgeon 26 Sarah Gudgeon 20 Denis Gudgeon 19 Ellen Salthouse 75 John Gudgeon 34
Her baptism:
Lancashire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1911 about Sarah Gudgeon
Name: Sarah Gudgeon
Birth Date: 8 Aug 1823
Baptism Date: 31 Aug 1823
Parish: Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: Simon Gudgeon
Mother: Sarah Gudgeon
Register Type: Parish Registers
Reference Number: PR 3340/1/21
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Potty
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30 Aug 2014 13:17 |
Parents' marriage?
Marriage: 21 Jun 1813 St Wilfrid, Ribchester, Lancashire, England Simon Gudgeon - (X), this Parish Sarah Greenalls - (X), this Parish Witness: John Curtis, (X); Thos. Gregson Married by Banns by: Js. Quartley Vicar Notes: with consent of parents Register: Marriages 1813-1837, Page 6, Entry 16 Source: LDS Film 1470814
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Flip
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30 Aug 2014 13:21 |
A possibility for Sarah in 1851, but only one of marriage certificates would confirm her father's name/occupation:
Sarah Gudgeon Age:20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831 Relation:Daughter Father's Name:Simon Gudgeon Gender:Female Where born:Dutton, Lancashire, England Civil Parish:Blackburn Ecclesiastical parish:St John Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps: View related Ecclesiastical Parish County/Island:Lancashire Country:England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district:Blackburn Sub-registration district:Blackburn ED, institution, or vessel:1dd Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number:31 Piece:2259 Folio:280 Page Number:10 Household Members:NameAge
Simon Gudgeon 54 (Shoemaker) Simon Gudgeon 26 Sarah Gudgeon 20 Denis Gudgeon 19 Ellen Salthouse 75 (housekeeper, widow) John Gudgeon 34
I see Potty beat me to this
:-D
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Flip
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30 Aug 2014 13:25 |
No, don't think that baptism is correct Potty - too early as is the parents marriage. Looking at the same family from 1851 census her mother appears to be Jean (or Gean) in 1841.
Edit, looking at the 1841 image I think her mother may have been called Grace. She was recorded as 40, but this would have been rounded down, and born in county.
ADDED: I very much doubt we'll find parish registrations if they were catholic - there are very few on-line.
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Potty
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30 Aug 2014 14:24 |
There is this marriage to a Grace:
Simon Gudgeon - (X), this Parish Grace Helm - (X), this Parish Witness: John Simpson; Thos. Gregson Married by Banns by: J Quartley Vicar Notes: with consent of Parents Register: Marriages 1813-1837, Page 50, Entry 148 Source: LDS Film 1470814
Flip, Ancestry does have images of St Albans Catholic Church, Blackburn. There are some baptisms for the two of the children of Simon and Sarah Greenalls, I am paging through to see if I can find anymore.
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Jacqueline
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30 Aug 2014 14:56 |
you say that 'he' has been in touch with you, so have you replied to 'his' message?
That's the best way to discover what connection there is - if any.
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