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My late mother, Lilian Ruby Francis born 1929, Stepney was placed in a children’s home in the 1930s and grew up knowing nothing about her family. I’ve been trying to find what became of her mother, Lilian Ethel Hunt (middle name also stated as Edith sometimes) born Oct 1898 since joining this site in 2009.

Lilian E Hunt – born 21 Oct 1898 at 12 Woodhouse Grove, Manor Park, East Ham
James Edward Francis – Nov 1893 in Penzance ( died 1967 Forest Gate)
Above Married Oct 1918, West Ham (Dec quarter Vol 4a page 720)

Children:-
Lilian R Francis born Oct 1919 in West Ham (died 1922 West Ham)
Alfred J Francis born 1921,West Ham
Leonard J Francis born 1925, West Ham
Lilian R Francis born Feb 1929, Stepney

I hold certificates Birth, Marriage, Death certificates for the above so don’t need help with them.

I’ve just found out that my grandmother Lilian E Hunt had an older daughter called Riley (don’t know if that is even spelt correctly) and I don’t know whether James Edward Francis was Riley’s father or not. I am now desperately trying to find Riley’s birth so that I can pick up another trace hoping that it will lead me to my grandmother. I’ve looked in Free BMD but been unable to find anything for Riley. Please could a more experienced member help? I’d be so very grateful!!!

Thank you
Hilary

Where has the information come from regarding Riley, please?

EDIT
What was middle name of Lilian R ...born 1919?

Gwyn

The information about Riley came from the 85 year old nephew of Lilian Ethel (or Edith) Hunt today ...... he's very spritely and remembered Riley was quite a bit older than him and she used to live in Woodford.

Lilian Ruby Francis was born in 1919 and my late mother was named after her. I have birth and death certificates for all 4 children, apart from Riley who is a complete shock! :-0

Are you absolutely sure that the daughter was named Riley? I have been looking for births where the surname is Hunt and mother's maiden name also Hunt.

There is this birth in West Ham of a girl called Violet.

First name(s) VIOLET
Last name HUNT
Birth year 1916
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's last name HUNT
District WEST HAM
County Essex
Country England
Volume 4A
Page 128

I just had the feeling that if someone was going by a name that was spoken rather than written down then Violet and Riley could sound similar depending on accents.

I know this sounds like a stretch of the imagination but if it was me I would want to rule this out by getting the certificate.

There is also this death where the birth year fits your grandmother:-

First name(s) LILIAN E
Last name FRANCIS
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1898
Age 65
Death quarter 1
Death year 1963
District SOUTHAMPTON
County Hampshire
Volume 6B
Page 997

Kath. x

If that is the correct person, she may have taken her stepfathers name

Marriages Dec 1937 (>99%)
FRANCIS Violet Neat Essex S.W. 4a 728

Neat Alan S Francis Essex S.W. 4a 728




Name: Violet Neat
Birth Date: 12 Mar 1916
Date of Registration: Aug 2003
Age at Death: 87
Registration district: London City
Inferred County: London
Register Number: LC166
District and Subdistrict: 243/1
Entry Number: 152


Husband looks to have died on the Isle of Wight
Name: Alan Stanley Neat
Birth Date: 24 Aug 1913
Date of Registration: Dec 1977
Age at Death: 64
Registration district: Isle of Wight
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume: 20
Page: 1803


There is someone called Matthew who has both in his tree( Violet as Francis not Hunt).....it is an old membership number, but worth a try

It doesnt look like they had any children though...but could of adopted of course


The tree owner and his parents look to live in the Woodford area

Thank you so much Kath and Jax!

I know that the death in Southampton for my grandmother is wrong as I have that certificate.

I will attempt to find and contact Matthew about Violet and also purchase the birth certificate from the GRO. Will let you know how I get on :-)

Thanks once again for your time and help
Hilary xxx

thinking out loud...Trying to work out a time frame here - if the nephew is now 85, that makes him born late 1920,s.

If 'Riley' was * quite a bit older than him* ( 10 years older?) it suggests that 'Riley' was born prob before she married.

If Lillian was born 1898, and first child of the marriage was born 1919, she was only 21 then,

if she had Riley when she was 14 =1912
Married = 1918.


What address did Lillian give on her marriage certificate? Her fathers name?
She was deffo a spinster, was she?

Hi Penny

The 85 year old nephew was born in 1929, just 2 weeks after my late mum (Lilian Ruby Francis) who was the youngest child ........ I think! ......... was born)

The address on the marriage certificate was the address where my grandmother Lilian Ethel Hunt was born which continued to be her home until around 1920 and according to the electoral roll, my granddad lived there with her until around 1922. Her father is Harry Hunt and he is named on the certificate.

Lilian was 20 when she married my grandfather, James Edward Francis, just a few days short of her 21st birthday and she is shown as a spinster. My grandfather James was in the army in World War 1 so they appear to have married as soon as it ended.

Thanks for taking an interest
Hilary

I'm just sooooooooooooo excited!!!!! Kathleen Bell you are right, Riley is Violet Hunt and the certificate I have just received confirms it! Thank you so much to you and also to Jax, I have now ordered the marriage and death certificates. I'm hoping that this vital new trail might lead me to my late grandmother, Lilian Ethel (Edith) Hunt!

Violet's father isn't named on the certificate but my grandfather was away in WW1 and since he didn't marry my grandmother until after the war in 1918, he wouldn't have been present at registration and therefore unable to have his name on the certificate. His youngest sister is called Violet so there is every chance he is the father.

Thank you once again everyone xxx <3

Great result !

If you could find a baptism record for Violet, it just might name her father.

Gwyn

Good news

Have you tried contacting matthew who has Violet in his tree..... I have a feeling he could be Violets grandson as both he and his father have the name Alan in their name

I will send you Pm with his name on Facebook

Great idea Gwyn, although I'm not sure where to look for baptism records for the area!

Thank you Jax, I did try to contact Matthew here on Genes Reunited but he hasn't replied and possibly doesn't use it anymore. Thank you so much for the PM, I've sent a Facebook message in the hope that Matthew will reply. It appears that one of his parents might even be my first cousin :-)

I'm so very grateful, thank you xxx

Great news Hilary. Just goes to show that sometimes going with a hunch can work out. "Riley" - "Violet" - who would have thought it would turn out to be right?

So pleased for you.

Kath. x

Just wanted to provide an update for Jax and KathleenBell ........... I managed to trace Matthew's father, John who is indeed my first cousin and we met in November!

John is still in shock as he didn't know he had a cousin and it is wonderful to be in contact. He was astounded to learn about his late mother Violet's family as he didn't know anything about them! I still haven't heard from Matthew but I am in regular contact with John and will be meeting up again in 2015 :-)

I'm so grateful for your help!!
Hilary xx

hi
is that the violet hunt born in 1916 with mothers name hunt west ham 4a 128

Looks like it Yvonne as that's the birth KathleenBell posted above.

Thanks for the update Hillary

Glad to hear you met up and are arranging further meetings

All the best for 2015