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Hi Everyone
I am asking for help again, this time for the John Family. My Gt Grandmother was Alice John b. 1850/51 in Swansea. She married William Hughes March 1871. I have now come across other John family members but cannot tie them in to what relation they are. On the marriage cert. Alice's father is given as Thomas but that is all I can find on him. 1901 census there is an Elizabeth Evans nee John living with my Gt. Grandparents William/Alice. Elizabeth married Thomas Evans 1859 Swansea. Lastly there is a Benjamin John b. 1854. 1871 Census shows him living with Thomas/Elizabeth Evans but again I cannot find what their exact connection is. It is driving me mad. Please help. I keep going round in circles.

Have you looked for Alice with father Thomas on the 1851 and 1861 censuses?

What profession did he (Thomas) have on the marriage certificate?

Thank-you

Added:
Is this her birth?
Births Dec 1852
JOHN Alice Jane Swansea 11a 376

Thanks for coming back.
Yes I have looked for Alice/Thomas but without success. I cannot find Alice's birth either. There is an Alice Jane John born same place around the same time but I have checked her out and do not think she is the same person as I have her marriage cert. and death cer. but these do not mention Jane.? Thomas John's occupation is given as Copperman. Both Alice and William were living in Morriston at the time of their wedding.

Just for reference, is this the family?

1881 Wales Census
Alice Hughes Age: 28 Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William Hughes
Gender: Female Where born: Morriston, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: Clase County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: Graig
Condition as to marriage: Married
Registration district: Swansea Sub-registration district: Llangyfelach
ED, institution, or vessel: 5b Piece: 5353 Folio: 117 Page Number: 86
William Hughes 31
Alice Hughes 28
John Hughes 9
Thomas Hughes 7
William Hughes 5
Mary A. Hughes 1
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 5353; Folio: 117; Page: 86; GSU roll: 1342290.

So this is the Alice J John ?

1871 Wales Census
Alice I John
Age: 18 Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female Where born: Llangyfelach, Glamorganshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Llangyfelach
Town: Morriston County/Island: Glamorgan Country: Wales
Registration district: Swansea Sub-registration district: Llangyfelach
ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Household schedule number: 110 Piece: 5446 Folio: 16 Page Number: 25
James Thomas 58
Mary Thomas 58
Ann John 85 mother widowed
Alice I John 18 visitor
Enock Thomas 37 visitor
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 5446; Folio: 16; Page: 25; GSU roll: 848048.

Alice jane likes visiting:

1861 Wales Census
Alice Jane John Age: 8 Estimated birth year: abt 1853 Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female Where born: Llangavelach, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Llanrhidian County/Island: Glamorgan Country: Wales
Registration district: Gower Sub-registration district: Gower Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Household schedule number: 44 Piece: 4109
Folio: 5 Page Number: 9
Henry Bennet 40
Ann Bennet 45
Alice Jane John 8
Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 4109; Folio: 5; Page: 9; GSU roll: 543236.

Yes that is the correct family for William/Alice Hughes.
That is also the same info I found for Alice J John.

Benjamin?


1861 Wales Census about Benjamin John
Name: Benjamin John
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas John
Mother's name: Jane John
Gender: Male
Where born: Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Swansea
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Swansea
Sub-registration district: Llangafelach
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Household schedule number: 175
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4100
Folio: 71
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas John 51
Jane John 43
Sarah John 20
John John 18
Thomas John 15
Susannah John 12
Evan John 10
David John 7
Benjamin John 6
William John 12

View original image

Yes that seems to make sense. I wonder if Elizabeth John was maybe an aunt instead of a sister as I was originally thinking?

Hi Shirley,

I think you may have messaged me regarding Benjamin John, born circa 1854 a few months back. The Benjamin John who married Elizabeth Griffiths was my great great grandfather. For the past few years I have assumed my Benjamin to be the son of Thomas John and Jane Morgan (as per Rambling Rose's post from the 1861 census). Anyway, just to make sure, I ordered Benjamin and Elizabeth's marriage certificate a few weeks ago and should hopefully receive it in the next day or so. Hopefully, the certificate will confirm who my Benjamin's parents were.

Hi again, I received the marriage certificate for Benjamin John today. He married Elizabeth Griffiths October 25 1874 in Llangyfelach. He was aged 21 at marriage so born circa 1853 as per census records. He was a Pickler and his father is named as Thomas John, a Copperman. Therefore, my Benjamin must be the brother of your Alice.

As explained in previous messages, I've had Benjamin as the son of Thomas John and Jane Morgan who were living at Ystrad Issa Fawr, Llewitha in the 1861 census. Thomas and Jane, along with a number of their children died of consumption between the 1861 and 1871 census.

My problem lies in the Thomas John names on the wedding certificate being named as a Copperman, whereas Thomas John of Ystrad Issa was a farmer. Can they still be the same person?