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Flip
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9 Jul 2014 21:16 |
You're welcome Misty :-)
Yes I noticed the age discrepancy, but then wouldn't you if you had a toy-boy in tow :-D
I can't find anything more on Mary, but Clark/e is a common name so maybe she married out of area before the 1851 census - her sister Agnes moved away so maybe she did too.
My previous post did not give Jane's burial place, but it was at St Mary's, Ulverston.
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Mistycat
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9 Jul 2014 19:48 |
Dear Flip
Thank you so much for doing the search....I didn't have Jane's death, so that's another piece of the puzzle.
The family did not move far from the Quay Street area but have been a beggar to find........ Margaret took 10yrs off her age on the 1881 census and had a daughter with the "lodger" by then!! Some of them also changed their christian names!!!
I'm so pleased that both you and Maureen agree Agnes has been found, I have been searching for ages, why I never thought of checking where I did before, goodness only knows.... What a coincidence Mathew marrying two Agnes Clarks, I guess Mary may always remain a mystery but who knows.
Once again, Thank you for all time and effort..
Misty x
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Flip
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9 Jul 2014 12:16 |
Sorry, but this is not conclusive for the 1843 death for Mary but I strongly suspect this is not your Mary.
I've checked the burial transcripts for Ulverston St Mary, Holy Trinity and Dalton St Mary - and there is no Mary Clark/Clarke buried in any of them in 1843. The municipal cemetery did not open until 1878.
I also had a look at the Walney burials and the Coulton burials (surrounding parishes) and nothing. Barrow's municipal cemetry did not open until 1873, and any other chapels in the area were under the Dalton parish records.
If you look on freebmd you will see just how spread-out the Ulverston reg district was in the early days so the death could have taken place in any number of parishes, but she wasn't buried in or around Ulverston!
Incidently, while I was looking I checked for her father prior to 1851 - and no results on him - so maybe he died out of area or at sea. However, not sure if you have this but there is a Jane Clark buried 30/1/1859 age 53, of Quay Street Ulverston (which is in the same area as they were in 1851) so it looks like her - bmd is spelt Clarke.
Added: Quay Street was where unmarried daughter Margaret was living in 1861/71 with various children and then the "lodger" John Fawcett in 1871. They'd moved up the road to Sunderland Terrace by 1881 so didn't move around much! Didn't exactly need a removal wagon! Although I realise you probably already have this from your OP ;-)
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Flip
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9 Jul 2014 07:24 |
It's a strange coincidence, but I'm sure Matthew married to different Agnes Clark's - and the one in 1871 is your Agnes. The earlier one died in 1869, it's on Cumbria BMD as sub district Dalton (Barrow was in this parish back then) and the 1861 census states she was born Penny Bridge - which is not in Ulverston.
I'm also sure you've nailed Agnes!
If you check Cumbria BMD you'll see they had a number of children between 1861/68, then there is a gap to 1873 where more children were born presumably to the second Agnes. Also, the 2nd marriage certificate is online, it clearly states her father as John Clark (dec) sailor - not a tailor.
The probate for Richard George Clark, gave an address of South Villa, Kents Bank. Your Agnes died in 1905, and Matthew Armer in 1917 - both their probates are on Ancestry in 1917 the addresss is the same. Her's (with will) granted to Edith Jane Armer, spinster. His to John Dodson Armer (miller) + solicitor, John Dodson appears to be a son from his first marriage.
I'll let you know later if the death for Mary checks out.
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MaureeninNY
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8 Jul 2014 12:36 |
I'm sure you've found Agnes (as ARMER),Misty!
Well done!
Maureen
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Susan
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8 Jul 2014 08:06 |
A possible Marriage for Agness.Cartmel where she was living in 1851 is in the reg dis of Ulverston
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Agness Clark Name: Agness Clark Registration Year: 1858 Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun Registration district: Ulverston Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 8E Page: 754 Records on Page: Name John Atkinson Mary Atkinson Agness Clark Isaac Massicks
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Mistycat
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7 Jul 2014 23:06 |
Probate for Richard George Clark (Agnes brother) is granted to Mathew Beecham Armer of South Villa, Kents Bank, Grange Over Sands, MusicTeacher
1911 England Census about Matthew Beecham Armer Age in 1911: 31 Estimated birth year: abt 1880 Relation to Head: Son Gender: Male Birth Place: Barrow In Furness, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Grange County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: South Villa, Kents Bank, Grange Over Sands Marital Status: Single Occupation: Musician (teacher) Name Age Matthew Armer 73......Retired Shoe Dealer Agnes Maud Mary Armer 37 Edith Jane Armer 36 Matthew Beecham Armer
Mother of Richard and Agnes Clark is Jane Beecham
Mother of Mathew is Agnes Armer ( nee Clark) born Ulverston......
Marriages Mar 1861 ARMER Matthew Ulverstone 8e 834 Clark Agnes Ulverstone 8e 834
1901 England Census Name: Agnes Armer Age: 64 Estimated birth year: abt 1837 Relation to Head: Wife Gender: Female Spouse: Matthew Armer Birth Place: Ulverston, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Grange Ecclesiastical parish: Allithwaite St Mary Town: Kents Bank County/Island: Lancashire Country: England
Name Age Matthew Armer 63 Agnes Armer 64 Maud Armer 27 Edith Armer 26 Matthew Armer 21
So....I thought Agnes was found.....Until, wrong flipping parents!!!
1861 England Census Name: Matthew Armer Age: 23 Estimated birth year: 1838 Relation: Brother-in-law (Son in Law on original image) Gender: Male Where born: Cartmel, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Dalton Ecclesiastical parish: Barrow St George County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: Ulverston Sub-registration district: Dalton Household schedule number: 176 Piece: 3170 Folio: 93 Page Number: 38 Household Members: Name Age Tsay Chark 60 Rebecca Chark 65 George Chark 28 Agnes Armer 25 Matthew Armer 23
Think Chark should be Clark looking at original image
And does this fit anywhere.....
Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936 Name: Matthew Armer.....Widower Gender: Male Age: 33 Birth Year: abt 1838 Event Type: Marriage Event Date: 15 Feb 1871 Parish: Leyland, Lancashire, England Spouse: Agnes Clark Spouse Age: 34 Father: Matthew Armer.......Farmer Spouse Father: John Clark......I think it says Sailor although could be Tailor!!! Register Type: Parish Register
Any ideas very welcome indeed
Misty x
Edit....so it is the wrong Agnes, I was convinced there was a connection with the name Beecham and the probate....oh well
England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 Name: Agnes Clark Gender: Female Marriage Date: 19 Jan 1861 Marriage Place: Dalton In Furness, Lancashire, England Father: Isaac Clark Spouse: Matthew Arimer FHL Film Number: 1471899 Reference ID: 2:3ZT6P6C
Can he have married two Agnes Clarks ? one in 1861, father Isaac, the other 1871, father John (my lot)
Deaths Mar 1869 Armer Agnes 33 Ulverstone 8e 551
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Mistycat
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7 Jul 2014 21:20 |
Apologies for slow reply....
Flip, Thank you I would very much appreciate you looking at RO for Mary.
I also think earlier post for Agnes is correct one
Thank you every one who has contributed
Misty x
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Flip
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7 Jul 2014 19:04 |
Misty, hang fire a couple of days with ordering the death certificate for 1843 for Mary. She could have been any age & it's a common name.
Lancs-opc only has Ulverston, St Mary deaths to 1841 - but the local RO has them transcribed and on film much later than this. I'm there on Wednesday or Thursday and will check for a burial record.
Mike I think your earlier 1851 census posting is more likely, her mother was still at same address in 1851 and that looks to be where Agnes grew up. Cavenidsh street is about half a mile away in the centre of town.
And there is an Agnes Clark baptised 1837 in Dalton, and living with her dad Timothy in Pennington in 1841, but she is not with her father in 1851 (he's re-married with other children there)
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Mike *
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7 Jul 2014 16:04 |
?????????
1851
Agness Clark
Age:15 Estimated birth year:abt 1836
Relation:Servant Where born:Dalton, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish:Pennington
Jacob Rawes 37 Janes Rawes 35 Thomas Rawes 2 Jacob Rawes 5 Mo Agness Clark 15
Haverthwaite to Dalton is roughly 8 miles
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MaureeninNY
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7 Jul 2014 15:50 |
I guess it's not that one either!!!
Found them in 1871 in Sunderland: Name: Mary J A Wright Age: 26 Estimated birth year: abt 1845 Relation: Boarder Gender: Female Where born: Sunderland, Durham, England Civil Parish: Tynemouth Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Saviour Town: Tynemouth County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Registration district: Tynemouth Sub-registration district: Tynemouth ED, institution, or vessel: 13 Household schedule number: 196 Piece: 5121 Folio: 86 Page Number: 40 Household Members: Name Age Isabella Marshall 12 Margaret Thiton 17 Joseph Wright 38 Mary J A Wright 26 Lucy Jane Wright 2 Months
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 5121; Folio: 86; Page: 40; GSU roll: 847397
Back to the drawing board....
Maureen
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Andrew
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7 Jul 2014 15:26 |
England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 about Mary Jane Alison Trotter
Name: Mary Jane Alison Trotter [Mary Jane Alison Clark] Gender:Female Marital Status:Widowed Marriage Date:18 Apr 1870 Marriage Place:Fleetwood, Lancashire, England Father: John Clark
Spouse: Joseph Wright FHL Film Number: 1470815
Andy
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MaureeninNY
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7 Jul 2014 15:06 |
This one has me wondering,but naturally I can't find anyone before or after: Lancs OPC Marriage: 19 Apr 1870 St Peter, Fleetwood, Lancashire, England Joseph Wright - Full Age, Soldier 35th Regt, Bachelor, Fleetwood Mary Jane Alison Trotter - Full Age, Widow, Fleetwood Groom's Father: Samuel Wright, Labourer Bride's Father: John Clarke, Mariner Witness: Cecilia Leadbetter; Thomas Escoline Married by Banns by: John T Brien Register: Marriages 1842 - 1874, Page 199, Entry 398 Source: LDS Film 1470815
And Ancestry: Lancashire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936 about Mary Jane Alison Tratter Name: Mary Jane Alison Tratter [Mary Jane Alison Claster] Gender: Female Age: of Full Age Event Type: Marriage Event Date: 18 Apr 1870 Parish: Fleetwood, Lancashire, England Spouse: Joseph Wright Spouse Age: of Full Age Father: John Claster Spouse Father: Samuel Wright Register Type: Parish Register
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Mistycat
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7 Jul 2014 13:50 |
Of Course, thank you Maureen....
I had baptism from Ancestry but knew I had seen Mariner somewhere before!!!!
Misty x
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MaureeninNY
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7 Jul 2014 13:45 |
Hi Misty, From LancsOPC: Baptism: 7 Oct 1838 St Mary, Ulverston, Lancashire, England Agnes Clark - daughter of John Clark & Jane Abode: Ulverston Occupation: Mariner Baptised by: Richard Gwillym, Minister Register: Baptisms 1836 - 1841 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 478, Entry 3799 Source: LDS Film 1040310
Maureen
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Mistycat
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7 Jul 2014 13:38 |
Hi Maureen
I do believe her father was a mariner, sure I had that info somewhere but can I find it, no!! where did you get it from please....
Thanks Gins....yes I have that
Misty x
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Gee
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7 Jul 2014 13:33 |
Looks like her baptism
England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name:Agnes Clark
Gender:Female
Birth Date:1 Jun 1835
Baptism Date:7 Oct 1838
Baptism Place:Ulverston, Lancashire, England
Father: John Clark
Mother: Jane
FHL Film Number:1471900
Reference ID:item 18 p 478
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MaureeninNY
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7 Jul 2014 13:33 |
Maybe not the correct marriage. The image is on Ancestry under BOWNSKI. Her father is listed as John-a farmer. Wasn't her father a mariner?
Maureen
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Mistycat
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7 Jul 2014 13:26 |
Thank you Andy
I'm sure the Agness you found in 1851 is the correct one, the given place of birth (on original census) is the same as the address on 1841, so maybe she was born Ulverston....
Death for Mary...I shall get the cert
safc,
Thank you shall follow that marriage through census
Misty x
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safc
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7 Jul 2014 13:13 |
????
Name: Andreas Anthonio Boronski Birth Date: 1826 Birthplace: Age: 29 Spouse's Name: Agnes Clark Spouse's Birth Date: 1834 Spouse's Birthplace: Spouse's Age: 21 Event Date: 1855 Event Place: St. Chad, Rochdale, Lancashire, England Father's Name: Adam Boronski Mother's Name: Spouse's Father's Name: John Clark Spouse's Mother's Name: Race: Marital Status: Previous Wife's Name: Spouse's Race: Spouse's Marital Status: Spouse's Previous Husband's Name: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M16320-9 System Origin: England-VR GS Film number: 1484385 Reference ID: 2:1M2T9TP
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