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Smith family Sedgley/ West Bromwich

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ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 21 May 2014 17:17

The only faint possibility I can see for Horatio's death would be if the registrar (or informant) got his name badly wrong:

????
Deaths Mar 1876 (>99%)
Smith Hezekiah 41 Manchester 8d 151

safc

safc Report 21 May 2014 14:56

William Reid, "England, Lancashire, Cheshire, Yorkshire, Parish Registers, 1603-1910"
Name: William Reid
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 02 Mar 1881
Event Place: St Philip, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Gender: Male
Age:
Marital Status: Single
Birth Year (Estimated):
Father's Name: James Reid
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Name: Sarah Ann Smith
Spouse's Age:
Spouse's Marital Status: Widowed
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated):
Spouse's Father's Name: William Holton
Spouse's Mother's Name:
GS Film number: 2357537
Digital Folder Number: 004497844
Image Number: 00539


marriage cert

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-159376-860777-67?cc=1788853&wc=M6FD-ZWP:143838901,158004801,158058501

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 21 May 2014 14:50

Sarah Ann remarried, so probably Horatio died 1871-81, or maybe they divorced.

Marriages Mar 1881 (>99%)
REID William Manchester 8d 278
SMITH Sarah Ann Manchester 8d 278



1881 England Census about John Smith
Name: John Smith
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relationship to Head: Step Son
Mother: Sarah Ann Reith (Reid on image)
Gender: Male
Where born: West Bromwich
Civil Parish: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address: 11 Back Lime Street
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: Ancoats
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 3982
Folio: 27
Page Number: 47
Household Members:
Name Age
William Reith 27
Sarah Ann Reith 26 (actually 36 on image), Lingerwick, (Tingewick) Bucks.
John Smith 13
Emily Bradbury 18

Unknown

Unknown Report 21 May 2014 11:11

I now feel I have found out about Eliza and Lydia. Thankyou all so much for your help!
But what about Horatio? After another fruitless trawl through census data, I thought I would look at his wife, Sarah A Holton.
1861 Census, Sarah Ann Holton lived at 123, Brook Street, West Bromwich. Her place of birth is incorrectly transcribed as Kingsditch, Buckinghamshire.
1851 Census, Sarah Ann and her family were living in Tingewick, Buckinghamshire confirming Sarah's year of birth as 1844.
1871 census: Sarah Smith is living at 12 Brook Street West Bromwich (correct place and year of birth). She has 2 children, Ann M b.1866 and John b.1869. So Horatio wasn't at home on the night of the 1871 census. No wonder I couldn't find him!

Unknown

Unknown Report 20 May 2014 19:35

ArgyllGran thank you so much, sadly I think this is her. 3 Living members of our family are diagnosed with Autism or Asperger's Syndrome. I have already found 2 Ancestors in Asylums, so this will be the third. Thank goodness people who view the World differently are part of Society today, not just locked away.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 20 May 2014 13:03

Just a long shot - a possible death if she never married:

Deaths Mar 1907 (>99%)
SMITH Lydia 67 W. Bromwich 6b 560


As her YOB varies 1840-45 in the censuses 1851-81, maybe this could be her in 1901?? Sad if it is, and you'd think some of her large family could have looked after her:


1901 England Census about Lydia Smith
Name: Lydia Smith
Age: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation to Head: Inmate
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Tipton, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Sedgley
Ecclesiastical parish: Upper Gornal St Peter
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Dudley
Sub-registration district: Sedgley
ED, institution, or vessel: Dudley Union Workhouse
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2739
Folio: 147
Page Number: 27
Household schedule number: 1

(Large numbers of inmates)


And another long shot, for 1891:


1891 England Census about Lydia Smith
Name: Lydia Smith
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846
Relation: Housekeeper
Gender: Female
Where born: Septon, Staffordshire, England (Tipton)
Civil Parish: Aston
Ecclesiastical parish: St Silas
Town: Aston Manor
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Registration district: Aston
Sub-registration district: Aston Manor
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2428
Folio: 87
Page Number: 38
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph B Brookes 32
Kate E Brookes 8
Frank C Brookes 1
Lydia Smith 45

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 20 May 2014 12:24

Re 1881 census, you say you can't find Lydia J, and that Eliza is with her sister Ann Matilda Bayliss.

In fact, it's Lydia who's with the Baylisses, and I've already posted Eliza J with her mother and John N in 1881 (19th May, 23:03):


1881 England Census about Lydia J. Smith
Name: Lydia J. Smith
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relationship to Head: Sister in Law
Gender: Female
Where born: Princes End, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: West Bromwich
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: 19 Oakwood St
Occupation: Dress Maker
Registration district: West Bromwich
Sub-registration district: West Bromwich North East
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2848
Folio: 41
Page Number: 26
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas J. Bayliss 28
Ann M. Bayliss 29
Sarah A. Bayliss 1
Lydia J. Smith 36
Lydia Bayliss

Unknown

Unknown Report 20 May 2014 11:01

I have tried looking under Horatio and Horace in the census returns but have found nothing after 1861. Yet on the family search (Mormon) site there are a large number of Horace/Horatio smiths! I can't understand why Horace or Horatio doesn't come up when I search census returns.

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 20 May 2014 10:20

I doubt that the different wife's maiden name will make any difference to your search for Horatio - the forenames are the same

I can't see him in any census after 1861

Unknown

Unknown Report 20 May 2014 10:05

Thank you so much for all your support! This is the first time I posted anything, so I wasn't sure how much detail to include. Here is some more information, mainly from census returns.

Horatio Smith. You have helped me find my error! I had him married to Sarah Ann Hughes and so wasn't able to find him after 1871. Will try to find him now in 1871 census! (and his descendants!) with wife Sarah Ann.

Lydia Julia Smith. I have found her on the 1861 and 1871 census working as a dressmaker in West Bromwich. I think she must have married before 1881 as she is missing from the census, but am again struggling...have tried to follow many threads about who she married, and have only found dead ends.

Eliza J Smith. Also a dressmaker, living with her sister Ann Matilda Bayliss on 1881 census, but can't find Eliza after this!


mgnv

mgnv Report 20 May 2014 05:17

West Midlands Marriage indexes for the years: 1863
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
SMITH Horatio HOLTON Sarah A West Bromwich, All Saints Sandwell Register Office 22/10/142

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 May 2014 23:27

This Horatio would be the right age at death:

Deaths Jun 1899 (>99%)
Smith Horatio 63 Aston 6d 146

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 May 2014 23:15

A tree on Ancestry says this is Horatio's marriage.

Marriages Dec 1863 (>99%)
Holton Sarah Ann W Bromwich 6b 1027
Smith Horatio W Bromwich 6b 1027

How much of this info have you already got, Linda? No point in us finding stuff you already know!

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 19 May 2014 23:11

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

First Name Last Name Relationship Condition Gender Age Year Of Birth Occupation Birth Place
JOHN SMITH HEAD - Male 58 1813 - STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
ELIZA SMITH WIFE - Female 57 1814 - STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
LYDIA J SMITH DAUGHTER - Female 30 1841 - STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
JOHN N SMITH SON - Male 29 1842 - STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
THOS H SMITH SON - Male 27 1844 - STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
ELIZA J SMITH DAUGHTER - Female 25 1846 - STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
ANN M SMITH DAUGHTER - Female 22 1849 - STAFFORDSHIRE

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 19 May 2014 23:08

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription


First Name Last Name Relationship Condition Gender Age Year Of Birth Occupation Birth Place
JOHN SMITH HEAD MARRIED Male 48 1813 COAL DEALER SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
ELIZA SMITH WIFE MARRIED Female 47 1814 - SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
HORATIS SMITH SON UNMARRIED Male 25 1836 LEGER CLERK SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
PHOBE A SMITH DAUGHTER UNMARRIED Female 23 1838 HOUSEMAID SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
LYDIA J SMITH DAUGHTER UNMARRIED Female 21 1840 DRESSMAKER TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
JOHN N SMITH SON UNMARRIED Male 19 1842 RAILWAY CLERK TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
THOMAS H SMITH SON UNMARRIED Male 17 1844 MACHINE CLERK TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
ELIZA J SMITH DAUGHTER UNMARRIED Female 15 1846 SCHOLAR TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
ANN G SMITH GRANDDAUGHTER UNMARRIED Female 13 1848 SCHOLAR WEST BROMWICH, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
ANN M SMITH DAUGHTER UNMARRIED Female 12 1849 SCHOLAR TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 May 2014 23:07

Maybe???

Deaths Dec 1883 (>99%)
SMITH Eliza Jane 34 W. Bromwich 6b 485

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 19 May 2014 23:06

How did you work back to these people?

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 May 2014 23:03

Eliza J and John N in 1881 - although her YOB's a bit out:


1881 England Census about John N. Smith
Name: John N. Smith
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1844
Relationship to Head: Son
Mother: Eliza Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Tipton, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: West Bromwich
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address: 29 Trinity Rd
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Warehouseman
Registration district: West Bromwich
Sub-registration district: West Bromwich South West
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2842
Folio: 27
Page Number: 45
Household Members:
Name Age
Eliza Smith 67
John N. Smith 37
Eliza J. Smith 28

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 May 2014 22:59

For our ref:


1861 England Census about Horatio Smith
Name: Horatio Smith
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: 1836
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Smith
Mother's name: Eliza Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Sedgley, Staffordshire, England

Civil Parish: West Bromwich
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: West Bromwich
Sub-registration district: West Bromwich North East
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 125
Piece: 2030
Folio: 15
Page Number: 24
Household Members:
Name Age
John Smith 48
Eliza Smith 47
Horatio Smith 25
Phebe A Smith 23
Lydia J Smith 21
John N Smith 19
Thomas H Smith 17
Eliza J Smith 15
Ann E Smith 12
Ann M Smith 12

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 19 May 2014 22:59

For INFO

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

First Name Last Name Relationship Condition Gender Age Year Of Birth Occupation Birth Place
JOHN SMITH HEAD MARRIED Male 38 1813 BLAST FURNACE MANAGER SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
ELIZA SMITH WIFE MARRIED Female 37 1814 - SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
EDWARD G SMITH SON - Male 16 1835 PUDLER SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
HORATIO SMITH SON - Male 15 1836 SHOEMAKER SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
PHOEBE A SMITH DAUGHTER - Female 13 1838 SCHOLAR SEDGLEY, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
LYDIA J SMITH DAUGHTER - Female 11 1840 SCHOLAR TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
JOHN NAPOLEAN SMITH SON - Male 9 1842 SCHOLAR TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
THOMAS HY SMITH SON - Male 7 1844 SCHOLAR TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
ELIZA J SMITH DAUGHTER - Female 5 1846 SCHOLAR TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription
ANN M SMITH DAUGHTER - Female 2 1849 - TIPTON, STAFFORDSHIRE Image Transcription

House Name PRINCES END

Parish TIPTON
City -
County Staffordshire
Hamlet -
Parliamentary Borough -
Municipal Ward -
Registration District DUDLEY
Archive Reference HO107
Piece Number 2029
Folio 32
Page 57