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Florence
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14 May 2014 22:33 |
can't see Thomas Kelly going from coachmaker to labour he may not of married Martha looks like I have come to a dead end with those 2 thanks again for all your help
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patchem
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14 May 2014 21:56 |
Think St Peter's would be Walton - but he is only a labourer:
1841 England Census Thomas Kelly Age: 25 Estimated birth year: abt 1816 Gender: Male Where born: Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Walton On The Hill Hundred: West Derby County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Alfred Place Occupation: labourer Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: Everton Piece: 519 Book: 6 Folio: 35 Page Number: 13 Thomas Kelly 25 Mary Kelly 25 James Kelly 4 Alice Kelly 1 Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 519; Book: 6; Civil Parish: Walton On The Hill; County: Lancashire; Enumeration District: 22; Folio: 35; Page: 13; Line: 10; GSU roll: 306905.
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patchem
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14 May 2014 21:45 |
Would Thomas go from being a coach maker to being a labourer?
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ArgyllGran
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14 May 2014 21:11 |
I suppose this is the suggested marriage to Mary Ann Lowry:
England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 about Thomas Kelly Name: Thomas Kelly Gender: Male Marriage Date: 12 Jun 1837 Marriage Place: St. Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire, England Spouse: Mary Lowry FHL Film Number: 1656506 Reference ID: it 3, p 202, no 604
another version of same marriage:
Liverpool, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921 about Thomas Kelly Name: Thomas Kelly Marriage Date: 12 Jun 1837 Parish: Liverpool, St Peter Spouse's Name: Mary Loury Reference Number: 283 PET/3/21
The image clearly spells her name Lowry. But her name's Mary - no suggestion of Ann in the middle
"Thomas Kelly of this parish, coach-maker, and Mary Lowry of this parish, spinster." Witnesses were Jeremiah Wonder and Mary Evans (her mark)
Can't tell if this is the same Thomas Kelly or not. No ages or parents' names are given. If it is, perhaps he never married Martha, if still married to Mary. But Mary Ann Kelly's baptism record (posted yesterday) says Martha was her mother.
Large numbers of Mary Kelly's died in the Liverpool / toxteth / West Derby area 1837 - 51 - impossible to know if any of them were Mary (nee Lowry).
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patchem
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14 May 2014 20:08 |
Just putting that 1861 census:
1861 England Census Thomas Kelly Age: 49 Estimated birth year: 1812 Relation: Boarder Gender: Male Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Toxteth Park Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park ED, institution, or vessel: 28 Household schedule number: 34 Piece: 2702 Folio: 99 Page Number: 8 Mary Stanly 54 head widowed charwoman Thomas Kelly 49 labourer Martha Kelly 34 Mary Kelly 10 Alexander Kelly 8 Elizth Kelly 5 Catherine Kelly 2 Source Citation: Class: RG 9; Piece: 2702; Folio: 99; Page: 8; GSU roll: 543015.
Why did you mention considering a birth in 1846 for Mary Ann, as this census shows her as born 1850/1851?
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Florence
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14 May 2014 19:50 |
Hi thank you all for taking time with my enquiry I think Thomas Kelly in the 1851 census born 1814 is my grt grt grandfather as I have him in 1861 censcus with the rest of his children Mary Ann dob 1849 Alexander dob 1853 Elizabeth dob 1856 Catherine dob 1858 all Liverpool as my granddad Wright and my dad were called Alexander but still cannot find a marriage for Thomas and Martha
a lady doing a tree on familysearch put doubt in my mind as she had Thomas Kelly as her grt x4 grandfather and she told me he had married a Mary Ann Lowry first whom she said his daughter but he had other children with her
thank you all I'm confusing myself
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ArgyllGran
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13 May 2014 22:17 |
William's widowed by 1911, so the death posted earlier looks like the right one:
1911 England Census about William John Wright Name: William John Wright Age in 1911: 64 Estimated birth year: abt 1847 Relation to Head: Visitor Gender: Male Birth Place: Liverpool TP, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Toxteth Park County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: 33 Gelling Street Liverpool Marital Status: Widowed Occupation: Plasterer Registration district: Toxteth Park Registration District Number: 454 Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park North West ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Piece: 22220 Household Members: Name Age Vernon Edwards 41 Catherin Edwards 41 Edith Edwards 12 Lily Edwards 8 Charles Edwards 6 Agnes Edwards 4 George Edwards 3 Catherine Rossos 67 William John Wright 64
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ArgyllGran
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13 May 2014 21:59 |
That YOB matches the approx. age given for her in 1871 - though it does vary a bit in later censuses:
1871 England Census about Mary A Wright Name: Mary A Wright Age: 20 Estimated birth year: abt 1851 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: William Jno Wright Gender: Female Where born: Liverpool Civil Parish: Toxteth Park Ecclesiastical parish: St Cleopas Town: Liverpool County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park ED, institution, or vessel: 35 Household schedule number: 19 Piece: 3800 Folio: 80 Page Number: 4 Household Members: Name Age John Redfearn 50 George Redfearn 11 William Jno Wright 24 Mary A Wright 20 Sarah F Wright 1 Catherine Wright 10
1881 England Census about Mary A. Wright Name: Mary A. Wright Age: 33 Estimated birth year: abt 1848 Relationship to Head: Wife Spouse: Wm.John Wright Gender: Female Where born: Liverpool Civil Parish: Toxteth Park County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: 4 Ho 4 CT Llanwrot St Marital Status: Married Education:
Employment status: View image Occupation: General Labourer Wife Registration district: Toxteth Park Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park ED, institution, or vessel: 49 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 3644 Folio: 52 Page Number: 33 Household Members: Name Age Wm.John Wright 34 Mary A. Wright 33 Thomas Wright 6 Alexander Wright 5 Alice Wright 2 Margaret J. Wright 1 Martha Kelly 8 Elizabeth Ireland 23 Catherine Kelly 21 Edward Graham 34
1891 England Census about Mary Ann Wright Name: Mary Ann Wright Age: 42 Estimated birth year: abt 1849 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: William John Wright Gender: Female Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Toxteth Park Ecclesiastical parish: St Silas County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image Registration district: Toxteth Park Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park ED, institution, or vessel: 51 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2933 Folio: 88 Page Number: 44 Household Members: Name Age William John Wright 45 Mary Ann Wright 42 Thomas Wright 17 Alexander Wright 15 Alice Wright 13 William John Wright 10 Robert Henry Wright 8 Charlotte E C Wright 4 Harriett Wright 9/12 Elizabeth England 32
1901 England Census about Mary A Wright Name: Mary A Wright Age: 53 Estimated birth year: abt 1848 Relation to Head: Wife Gender: Female Spouse: William J Wright Birth Place: Liverpool, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Toxteth Park Ecclesiastical parish: St Silas County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image Registration district: Toxteth Park Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park ED, institution, or vessel: 66 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 3435 Folio: 78 Page Number: 6 Household schedule number: 39 Household Members: Name Age William J Wright 54 Alexander Wright 25 William J Wright 19 Robert H Wright 17 Charlotte E C Wright 13 Harriet Wright 10 Mary A Wright 53 John Pimblett 27 - son-in-law Alice Pimblett 22 - daughter Martha Pimblett 1 Elizabeth Pimblett 6 Months John Jackson 38
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ArgyllGran
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13 May 2014 21:49 |
They're all very common names in Liverpool. However, if this is perhaps her death:
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Mary Ann Wright Name: Mary Ann Wright Estimated birth year: abt 1850 Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1909 Age at Death: 59 Registration district: Toxeth Park Inferred County: Lancashire Volume: 8b Page: 159
then perhaps this is her birth/baptism:
Liverpool, England, Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Mary Kelly Name: Mary Kelly Baptism Date: 18 Feb 1849 Parish: Toxteth Park, St John the Baptist Father's Name: Thomas Kelly Mother's name: Martha Kelly Reference Number: 283 BAP/2/2
These could match up with the first 1851 census I posted, the one with Thomas born Liverpool 1814.
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ArgyllGran
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13 May 2014 21:44 |
For our ref:
Liverpool, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921 about Mary Ann Kelly Name: Mary Ann Kelly Age: Full Age Marriage Date: 5 Jul 1869 Parish: Liverpool, St Nicholas Spouse's Name: William John Wright Father's Name: Thomas Kelly Spouse Father's Name: Thomas Wright Reference Number: 283 NIC/3/70
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ArgyllGran
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13 May 2014 21:40 |
I'm not seeing her aged 5 with Thomas and Martha in 1851. Please can you post the 1851 record you found?
There are these:
1851 England Census about Thomas Kelly Name: Thomas Kelly Age: 37 Estimated birth year: abt 1814 Relation: Lodger Gender: Male Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England Civil Parish: Toxteth Park Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Baptist County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street address: Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park ED, institution, or vessel: 1al Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 28 Piece: 2187 Folio: 536 Page Number: 7 Household Members: Name Age Mary A White 36 Mathew White 13 Ann White 11 Thomas Kelly 37 Martha Kelly 25 Mary Kelly 3 Margaret Kelly 4 Mo
1851 England Census about Thomas Kelley Name: Thomas Kelley [Thomas Kelly] Age: 35 Estimated birth year: abt 1816 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Martha Kelley Gender: Male Where born: Dublin, Ireland Civil Parish: Hulme Ecclesiastical parish: St Marks County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Registration district: Chorlton Sub-registration district: Hulme ED, institution, or vessel: 2ww Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 71 Piece: 2221 Page Number: 16 Household Members: Name Age Thomas Kelley 35 Martha Kelley 37 Mary Ann Kelley 14 Ellen Kelley 11 Sarah Ann Kelley 9 John Kelley 5
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patchem
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13 May 2014 21:25 |
Is Mary Ann Kelly showing as age 4/5 in 1851 census, born Liverpool?
Have you applied for a birth certificate for her?
This, from Lancs online clerks: http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
Baptism: 25 Oct 1846 St Mary, Walton on the Hill, Lancashire, England Mary Kelly - Daughter of Thomas Kelly & Mary Born: 25 Sep 1846 Abode: Kirkdale Occupation: Labourer Baptised by: T. G. Leigh Vicar Register: Baptisms 1835 - 1866, Page 119, Entry 3 Source: LDS Film 1647560
Added: What is Thomas's occupation?
Thanks
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Florence
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13 May 2014 21:07 |
looking for marriages for my grtx2 grandfather I think he may have been married twice first one 1837 to Mary but think she died as in the 1851 census he was with Martha Trying to find which one of Thomas Kelly's wives was my grt grandmother mother found 1 birth for Mary ann Kelly born 1846 in Liverpool and a christening in 1849 for Mary Ann Kelly both father's name Thomas Kelly Mary Ann Kelly married William John Wright, William's father was Thomas Wright mother Sarah Youds all born Liverpool
would be glad of any help
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