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Joseph Bate was my husband's great grandfather. He married Elizabeth Greenway in 1872 and their children were Allen, Mary, Sarah, Emma, Alice and Beatrice. Joseph's father was Thomas, possibly married to Mary. There are several possibilities in the Dudley area. I'd be grateful if anyone can help. Julie Buse

Hi Julie, just to clarify - is it the parents of Joseph Bate that you're trying to confirm?

Have you got Joseph & Elizabeth's marriage certificate to confirm the name of his father (plus his father's occupation)?

You need Joseph's birth certificate to see who his mother was.

A possibility

1861 census
Piece: RG9/2048 Place: Sedgley -Staffordshire Enumeration District: 19
Civil Parish: Sedgley Ecclesiastical Parish: Lower Gornal
Folio: 82 Page: 12 Schedule: 63
Address: Biddles Lane
BATE Thomas Head M M 38 Blacksmith Staffordshire - Kingswinford
BATE Mary Wife M F 38 Shropshire - Wombridge
BATE Joseph Son - M 11 Scholar Staffordshire - Sedgley
BATE Joannah Daur -F 9 Scholar Staffordshire - Sedgley
BATE Thomas Son -M 7 Scholar Staffordshire - Sedgley
BATE Allan Son - M 4 Scholar Staffordshire - Sedgley
BATE Charlotte Daur - F 1 Staffordshire - Sedgley


Do you have confirmation of Thomas Bate's occupation?

(I see that Joseph had a son called Allen, which could tie in with this Joseph's brother)

????

1851 England Census about Joseph Bate
Name: Joseph Bate
Age: 10 Mo
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Bate
Mother's name: Mary Bate
Gender: Male
Where born: Sedgley, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Sedgley
Ecclesiastical parish: Lower Gornal
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation: (of father) Balcksmith

View image
Registration district: Dudley
Sub-registration district: Sedgley
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 53
Piece: 2030
Folio: 340
Page Number: 13
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Bate 27
Mary Bate 28 born: Wombridge, Shropshire
Joseph Bate 10 Mo

If you have the marriage certificate, then what does it give as father's occupation?

Ancestry links this marriage to 1851 couple:-

England & Wales Marriages, 1538-1940 about Mary Fereday
Name: Mary Fereday
Gender: Female
Father's Name: Allen Fereday
Spouse's Name: Thomas Bate
Spouse's Father's Name: Thomas Bate
Marriage Date: 15 Apr 1849
Marriage Place: Sedgley, Staffordshire, England

Joseph's marriage certificate gives his father as Thomas Bate, blacksmith, but I have tried to find Thomas's marriage and have found a few marriages between a Thomas and Mary in that area but don't know which one is correct. I am therefore stuck as far as finding Joseph's father is concerned. Julie Buse

If the marriage certificate gives father as Thomas, then I think you can safely say that you have found his father, it's his mother that you need to confirm now.
My 1851 census gives father's occupation as Blacksmith so that looks to be a likely possibility. Wife there is Mary as you thought it may be.
As there are several possible births for Joseph it may be an idea to look at the births of some of his siblings to see if there are any with fewer possible birth records. If you buy the certificate of one of them and mother turns out to be Mary Fereday, then the marriage I posted would seem be the correct one.
You could also try looking at baptism records, mother's maiden name is sometimes noted on these, although not very often.

The 1861 census posted by Beverly looks to be the same family, which gives a sibling as Allan. I've checked births for him between 1856 and 1858 and there is only 1:-

Births Jun 1856 (>99%)
Bate Alan Dudley 6c 70

..........so this one may be worth getting.

There is also only 1 for Joanna, that I can see:-

Births Sep 1851 (>99%)
Bate Joanna Dudley 18 345

..........same for Charlotte:-
Births Sep 1859 (>99%)
Bate Charlotte Dudley 6c 56



EDIT:-
A clue could also come from the marriage I posted, as it shows Mary's father's name as being Allen. This isn't a hugely popular name so could very well be a good indication that we are on the correct route?

Same family in 1871, just in case:-

1871 England Census about Joseph Bate
Name: Joseph Bate
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Bate
Mother's name: Mary Bate
Gender: Male
Where born: Sedgley, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Sedgley
Ecclesiastical parish: Lower Gornal
Town: Lower Gornal
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Dudley
Sub-registration district: Sedgley
ED, institution, or vessel: 55
Household schedule number: 28
Piece: 3009
Folio: 93
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Bate 48 - Blacksmith
Mary Bate 49
Joseph Bate 20
Thomas Bate 17 - Labourer in the Colliery
Allen Bate 15
Charlotte Bate 12
Sarah Ann Bate 10
Emma Bate 8

Address:- (looks like) 4 Hlavells Lane

What was Joseph's occupation on the marriage certificate and what did he give as his address?
As it is very close to 1871 census he may have still been living at home so it could confirm that we have the correct family.

Thank you Catherine, for all your thoughts. I haven't got all my information in front of me at the moment but will get back with it shortly. I think the 1861 census listing posted by Beverley does look a real possibility. Thanks for the help - I'll get back when I've done some more checking. Julie

Catherine kindly copied my reply as I am new to this Community board - I have got Joseph's marriage certificate and am pretty certain he was a blacksmith. The wedding took place at St James Church, Dudley. I'll check on his occupation and address and add it to the thread at the weekend as I haven't got the certificate to hand at the moment. Thanks for the help. Julie

Just in case Mary Fereday is correct:-

Mary Ferriday
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 15 September 1822 THE COAL PIT BANK WESLEYAN,WOMBRIDGE,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
father: Allen Ferriday
mother: Charlotte


In which case these would be possible siblings:-

Frances Ferriday
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 11 August 1816 DONNINGTON WOOD,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
father: Allen Ferriday
mother: Charlotte

Thomas Ferriday
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 18 June 1820 Dawley, Salop, England
residence: Shropshire, England
father: Allen Ferriday
mother: Charlotte Ferriday

Hannah Ferriday
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 8 July 1832 THE COAL PIT BANK WESLEYAN,WOMBRIDGE,SHROPSHIRE,ENGLAND
father: Alan Ferriday
mother: Charlott

Aaron Fereday
England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 2 August 1835 KINGSWINFORD AND ST MARYS CHAPELRY,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
father: Allen Fereday
mother: Charlotte