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I very much appreciate all the help. Thank you all.

1871 and 1881 are FREE at

https://familysearch.org/

But you've got the complete answer to your question now.................

Thank you!

My brother-in-law is unfortunately away for another 2 and a half weeks, so I'm afraid that impatience got the better of me! I did try for the free 1881, but both GR and Findmypast charged me for it and I ran out of credits before I could find them. Sorry!

As far as John/David John is concerned, I have a copy of a St Pancras parish record that shows John and twin sister Elizabeth baptised in January 1852, but was unable to find a BMD record for John. I looked up FreeBMD for Elizabeth Hayward and found the entry for David John on the same page. Who knows? I had to assume that it might be the right one.

1871 census


Person: HAYWARD, David Address: Barlow Mews, St George Hanover Square, London Middlesex, Westminster

HAYWARD, David Head M 47 1824 Hampshire VIEW
HAYWARD, Ann Wife F 49 1822 Berkshire VIEW
HAYWARD, William Son M 22 1849 Berkshire VIEW
HAYWARD, David Son M 14 1857 Middlesex VIEW
HAYWARD, Maria Daughter F 12 1859 Middlesex VIEW
HAYWARD, Richard Tom Son M 7 1864 Middlesex VIEW
HAYWARD, Amy Daughter F 5 1866 Middlesex

David's Occupation: Foreman of Livery Stables.

QED

Is this John & Mary Ann in 1881?


1881 England Census about John Hayward
Name: John Hayward
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Nansey Hayward
Gender: Male
Where born: Islington, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Marylebone
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 28 Gt Quebec St
Marital Status: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Occupation: Brass Finisher <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration district: Marylebone
Sub-registration district: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 149
Folio: 92
Page Number: 48
Household Members:
Name Age
John Hayward 29
Nansey Hayward 29 - born Marylebone, Middlesex
Willm. Hayward 8
John Hayward 6
Louisa Hayward 5
Thomas Hayward 3
Sarah Hayward 2


And 1891:


1891 England Census about Mary Ann Hayward
Name: Mary Ann Hayward
Age: 41
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Marylebone, London, England
Civil Parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: Emmanuel
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Marylebone
Sub-registration district: St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 102
Folio: 148
Page Number: 42
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary Ann Hayward 41 - widowed
William D Hayward 19
John Hayward 18
Sarah Hayward 13
Charles Hayward 2



England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about John Hayward
Name: John Hayward
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1890
Age at Death: 40
Registration district: Marylebone
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 374

1871 for John shows his occupation as BRASS finisher

Possible baptism but father David is a labourer; living at Caledonia Rd:


John David Hayward

Record Type:Baptism
Baptism Date:3 Jan 1852
Father's Name:David Hayward
Mother's name:Ann Hayward
Parish or Poor Law Union:St Pancras
Borough:Camden
Register Type:Parish Registers

An Elizabeth, same parents, was baptised same day both have same DOB 21 Nov 1852, so find the correct birth on freebmd should be easy as they will both have the same ref (or one page different)

As there is a son DAVID on the 1861 census, that surely rules out any relevance with regard to the cert for David John

You need to know the Occupation of John's father..............from the marriage cert

John's occupation is difficult to read, looks like Snap Finisher; David is Foreman of livery stable; Richard Seward is a Coach maker; address for both is Salisbury St. Both of full age.

This is the youngest of the children on 1861 census

Births Mar 1861 (>99%)

Hayward Ann St George Hanover Square 1a 204

The marriage from Ancestry:


Name:
John Hayward

Spouse Name:
Mary Ann Seward

Record Type:
Marriage

Event Date:
9 Jun 1872

Parish:
St Marylebone Christ Church

Borough:
Westminster

Father Name:
David Hayward

Spouse Father:
Richard Seward

Register Type:
Parish Register

Yes it was!


Name:John Hayward
Spouse Name:Mary Ann Seward
Record Type:Marriage
Event Date:9 Jun 1872
Parish:St Marylebone Christ Church
Borough:Westminster

>>>>Father Name:;David Hayward occ. Foreman of livery stable

Spouse Father:Richard Seward
Register Type:Parish Register


Andy

For INFO

1861 census


Person: HAYWARD, John Address: 5, Eaton Place, St George Hanover Square, Westminster

HAYWARD, David Head Married M 33 1828
VIEW
HAYWARD, Ann Wife Married F 39 1822
Stockcross, Berkshire VIEW
HAYWARD, John Son M 91 1770 Scholar
Kings Cross, Middlesex VIEW
HAYWARD, George Son M 6 1855
Eaton Place, Middlesex VIEW
HAYWARD, David Son M 4 1857
Eaton Place, Middlesex VIEW
HAYWARD, Maria Daughter F 2 1859
Eaton Place, Middlesex VIEW
HAYWARD, Ann Daughter F 0 (3M) 1861
Eaton Place, Middlesex VIEW
HAYWARD, Elizabeth F 9 1852 Scholar
Kings Cross, Middlesex

What does the FREE 1881 census say about his birthplace and birth year?

When your relative returns from holiday....ask for the details from the cert......surely he/she won't be away for too long

..............unless the marriage is on Ancestry..............someone with a sub may be able to check for you

Bear in mind that until 1875 there were no penalties for not registering births, so don't assume that his birth was ever registered.

Help needed please!

John Hayward married Mary Ann Seward (born c 1849 in Wandsworth, London) on 9/6/1872.

What I need to find out, is if this is the same John Hayward that was born to David and Ann Hayward in December 1851 in St Pancras, London (Islington). Another family member has John and Mary Ann's marriage cert, but, frustratingly is on holiday at the moment, so I can't get it! I believe the father is given as David though.

I have sent for the birth certificate for John (listed under David John) in 1851, but I don't think this will give me anything to prove the link. I have tried to find John and Mary Ann together on the censuses, but I am having to use pay as you go credits at the moment, and I have had no luck. I have found the John living with David and Ann in 1861- although his age has been incorrectly transcribed as 91!