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1861 England Census about James Hore
Name: James Hore
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: 1841
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Chatham, Kent, England

Civil Parish: Milton next Sittingbourne
Town: Milton
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Milton
Sub-registration district: Milton
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 110
Piece: 528
Folio: 130
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
William Baker 48
Harriet Baker 47
George Baker 13
William Baker 10
Elizabeth Baker 7
Rose Baker 5
Henry Pearce 2
James Hore 20 - <<<<<<<<< BASKETMAKER <<<<<<<<<<

Hi Margee. That I can well understand because my mothers sister was boarded out as a youngster because there was no room in the prison married quarters where my grandad was stationed so he kept her 2 brothers and she went with either friends or family never found out where. When she got married she said her father was dead, his occ. a decorator, in fact,he was very much alive and still a prison warder. She never told her grandson she had siblings and he was shocked when I found him on here when he posted her name looking for any relatives of her because he knew nothing about her. She even told her son his name was Smith and it wasn't until he got married he found out about his real name. She had 8 siblings

Thanks Chris. Yes this is him and the family were Basket Makers but just where was he between 1841 and 1864. There is no birth registered for him, did that happen in those days..

Day:28
Month:Jul
Year:1864
Groom's Forename(s):James Heared (Basket Maker)
Groom's Surname:Ballard
Groom's Age:23
Groom's Parish:
Bride's Forename(s):Anne
Bride's Surname:Austen
Bride's Age:22
Bride's Parish:
Groom's Father's Forename(s):Joseph (Basket Maker)
Groom's Father's Surname:Ballard
Bride's Father's Forename(s):Thomas (Labourer)
Bride's Father's Surname:Austen
Page:171
Place:Faversham, St Mary of Charity
County:Kent
Archive Reference:U3/146/1/14
Year Range:1855-1867
Record source:Canterbury Marriages - Transcripts
Data provider:Canterbury Cathedral Archives
(Residence at Time, James, Abbey Street, Anne, East Street. Wits. John Brett, Esther Austen, William Richmond)

(as above FMP)

Chris :)

http://theromany.weebly.com/1881-basket-makers-kent.html

Coincidentally. my gt. grandmother was illegitimate and gave the name of her mother's brother on her marriage certificate. as her father.

So I wonder where James Howard Ballard was between 1841 census and his marriage in 1864

So I wonder where James Howard Ballard was between 1841 census and his marriage in 1864

Thank you MarieCeleste, now that is interesting, so Joseph the son of James and Mary is possibly the father, do you think Joseph was married and his wife died for she is not on the 1941 census and I think it would be unusual if a father took on his baby if the wife or partner was alive in those days.. I will ask around on the family trees to see if anyone sent for a marriage cert.

He names his father as Joseph when he married:

James Hoared Ballard, "England Marriages, 1538–1973 "

Name: James Hoared Ballard
Birth Date: 1841
Age: 23

Spouse's Name: Anne Austen
Spouse's Birth Date: 1842
Spouse's Age: 22

Event Date: 28 Jul 1864
Event Place: Faversham, Kent, England

Father's Name: Joseph Ballard
Spouse's Father's Name: Thomas Austen

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I00359-8
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1886148
Reference ID: item 5 p 171

(From FamilySearch)

Hard to say if the middle name is a mistranscription of Howard or if it's derived from Hoar (I think it's meant to be Howard).

The only way to be absolutely certain is to buy a copy of the actual certificate and see what occupation it gives for the father.

I can see that happening and wondered if he was the son of either Mary or Sarah, both age 15 on the 1841 census. I have just looked up a marriage for him in 1864 and he his down as James Hoared Ballard, so could he have been the child of James and Mary both in their 50's

It's possible that he could have been an illegitimate child of a daughter of James & Mary. If the daughter married he could have been brought up using his step-father's name and then reverted to his legal name at marriage. I've seen that happen more than once.

Thank you for your replies. I thought the same that James and Mary could have been grandparents. Possible he could have been listed on birth as James Hoar, that's if Mary was his mother and not grandmother. I did find Joseph Ballard who was 18 in 1841 in the 1861 census living in Durham states occ Mariner, so that could tie up with the Masters and mates certificate. In 1851 James would have been 11 yrs old so who would he have been living with, certainly not James and Mary Ballard. No I do not have a marriage cert for James Howard Ballard, I'm looking up for my husbands cousins family. I have looked on the trees of other people and they don't seem to have found him either for 20 years Looking at the birth of James Hoar in Ashford Kent, that is quite a distance from Chatham so not too sure on that one but will look it up. Many Thanks

Just in case it's relevant.

UK and Ireland, Masters and Mates Certificates,
Name:
Joseph Ballard

Estimated Age:
28

Birth Date:
16 Apr 1823

Birth Place:
Finsbury, Kent

Issue Date:
20 Feb 1851

Issue Port:
Sunderland <<<<<<<<<<<

Another tree has mother Mary Hoar born 1777 and James Howard born 1841 making her 64 when he was born!!!

1841


James Ballard 55
Mary Ballard 56
Joseph Ballard 18 ....... maybe James's father ?
Mary Ballard 15
Sarah Ballard 15
James Ballard 8 Months - Where born:Kent, England

1871


Saml Ballard ... wrong transcription
[James Ballard]

Age:30

Estimated birth year:abt 1841

Spouse's Name:Anna Ballard

Where born:Chatham, Kent, England
Civil Parish:Faversham
Town:Faversham
County/Island:Kent

Saml Ballard 30
Anna Ballard 28
Ernest Ballard 4
Nelly Ballard 2
George Ballard 1

Do you have the marriage certificate? Does it give father's name?

I would imagine that on that 41 census James & Mary are his grandparents.

the marriage i posted above
states james father as been joseph (not) james so maybe i have the wrong marriage

????
Births Sep 1841
Hoar James E Ashford 5 8

Roy