Find Ancestors

I have a James Murray who was the son of James Murray (B 1847) and Mary Allan. He reported his father's death in 1907 in Hawick giving his own address as Helenbank, Rosetta Rd., Peebles. I have tried Hawick and Peebles for the 1901 Census and can only come up with him living in March Street, Peebles. This would seem to make sense as he was an Apprentice Baker in 1891 Census while living at home then in Peebles as a Journeyman Baker. I am hoping this is the same person.

However, I can find no marriage so can't verify parentage is correct plus he seems to have disappeared by 1911 Census.

I have found no death but have found a James Murray, Baker on The Empress of Ireland departing from Liverpool on May 5th 1912 for Quebec. Could this be an explanation for his 'disappearance'? However, he doesn't identify himself as Scottish only English (surely a Scotsman wouldnt say he was english?)and the port is Liverpool so I can't be certain.

Anyone know of him in Canada?

As you can imagine there are many James Murrays born around 1876 from Scotland in Canada.

Have you tried to find his date of birth with more accuracy?

Thanks

Added:
cannot see one on 1921 Canada census who arrived in 1912 and is Scottish.

Hi!

Thanks 'patchem'!

No can't find a Birth Certificate for him but he comes up as one age or another - 2 years apart on the Census documents I have found.

Can you find a James Murray from England that matches so I can check one way or another?

Many hanks for your help!

Regards

Yvonne :-)

?????????????

Name: James Murray
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1851
Gender: Male
Age: 3
Birthplace: Peeblesshire
Registration District:
County: Peeblesshire
Birth Year (Estimated): 1848
GS Film number: 1042538

Thanks Ann of Cardiff. Wrong Birthdate I am afraid! James Murray is such a common name both in my family and in general!

Is this the family, Margaret?


1901 Scotland Census about James Murray
Name: James Murray
Age: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Mary Murray
Gender: Male
Where born: Hawick, roxburghshire
Registration Number: 789/1
Registration District: Hawick
Civil Parish: Hawick
County: Roxburghshire
Address: 6 Laidlaw Terrace
Occupation: Baker
ED: 3
Household Schedule Number: 94
Line: 10
Roll: CSSCT1901_422
Household Members:
Name Age
James Murray 54
Mary Murray 54 - b. Bathgate, Linlithgowshire
Isabella H Murray 21
William A Murray 14

If so, then this will be the marriage:

1874 MURRAY JAMES ALLAN MARY BATHGATE /WEST LOTHIAN 662/01 0016

Yes, it's the right family. Here they are in 1891, with James, baker's apprentice:


1891 Scotland Census about James Murray
Name: James Murray
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relationship: Son
Father's Name: James Murray
Mother's Name: Mary Murray
Gender: Male
Where born: Hawick, Roxb Sh
Registration Number: 789
Registration District: Hawick
Civil Parish: Hawick
Town: Hawick
County: Roxburghshire
Address: 23 High St
Occupation: Baker (Apprentice)
ED: 1
Household Schedule Number: 67
Line: 13
Roll: CSSCT1891_384
Household Members:
Name Age
James Murray 45
Mary Murray 45 - b. Bathgate
James Murray 15
Robert Murray 13
Bella Murray 11
David Murray 9
William Murray 5

This is James's birth:

1875 MURRAY JAMES M HAWICK /ROXBURGH 789/00 0160

Born 19/05/1875 at 10 Baker Street, Hawick (how apt!).
Father: James Murray, baker journeyman.
Mother: Mary Murray, ms Allan
Parents' marriage 20/05/1874, Bathgate.

The passenger record you found for 1912 only lists the person as J Murray, so not necessarily a James, and YOB's a bit out:


UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960 about J Murray
Name: J Murray
Gender: Male
Age: 34
Birth Date: abt 1878
Departure Date: 3 May 1912
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Destination Port: Quebec, Canada
Ship Name: Empress of Ireland
Search Ship Database: Search the 'Empress of Ireland' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Canadian Pacific Railway
Official Number: 123972
Master: J O Forster

But it doesn't say he's English - just that England was his last place of permanent residence - and that could be a lazy clerk's fault, as everyone on that page apparently last lived in England.

This is the 1901 record of James which you found, Margaret (for reference). I agree this will be him:


1901 Scotland Census about James Murray
Name: James Murray
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relationship: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Hawick, roxburghshire
Registration Number: 768
Registration District: Peebles
Civil Parish: Peebles
County: Peeblesshire
Address: 44 March Street
Occupation: Journeyman Baker
ED: 7
Household Schedule Number: 224
Line: 12
Roll: CSSCT1901_417
Household Members:
Name Age
Alexander Heard 66
Jane Heard 66
Jane Heard 40
Alexander O Heard 27
Alexander T Heard 6
Alexander H Colledge 9
James Murray 25
Robert Elijah Robson Jr. 22


Like you, I can't find him in 1911 -- but there are so many James Murrays. He's not in Roxburghshire or Peeblesshire, anyway.

This is the arrival in Canada of the passenger list posted above:

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: James Murray
Gender: Male
Age: 34
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Date of Arrival: 13 May 1912
Vessel: Empress of Ireland

Port of Arrival: Quebec
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: T-4784

He was an iron dresser, born Scotland and was headed to Toronto.

EDIT: It looks as though his intended occupation in Canada was to be a baker.
His religion was Presbyterian.

This is odd?
This one was the son of WILLIAM Murray and Mary Allan and about 5yrs younger than the man you are looking for

Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950 about James Murray
Name: James Murray
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 8 Aug 1881
Birth Place: Innerleithen, Peebles, Scotland
Father: William Murray
Mother: Mary Allan Murray
FHL Film Number: 232694
Reference ID: v 762 p 25

I don't think that James Murray going to Quebec can be the right man. It's unlikely a baker would become an Iron dresser - though I can sympathise with the one who went to Canada, not wanting to be an iron dresser any more!

Can't find Mary's death, either.
She was still alive in 1911, but although a lot of Mary Murrays died in Scotland 1911-1945, none has ms Allan.
Only three have no ms given, which may of course mean they weren't married.
Whether married or not, they died in Largs, Dundee, and Aberlour, none of which are anywhere near the Borders area.

Possibility for James's death?? Though of course it's a very common name.

MURRAY, JAMES

Rank:
Serjeant
Service No:
4654
Date of Death:
18/10/1914
Regiment/Service:
King's Own Scottish Borderers 2nd Bn.
Panel Reference Panel 15.
Memorial LE TOURET MEMORIAL

Thank you ArgyllGran; Marie Celeste; GlasgowLass; patchem and AnnCardiff for your efforts on my part.

Why would someone who announced they were a Baker when leaving Liverpool become an Iron Dresser when arriving in Quebec? Could there be 2 of them?

I did wonder about the James Murray who died in WW1 - will need to dig a bit more. War Memorials often have parents listed so will have a look.- I found a cousin of his on the Hellas Memorial and his parents were listed.

Mary Murray ms Allan is a mystery as you say ArgyllGran. Yes she was widowed in 1907 and appeared on the 1911 Census but then disappeared! I wondered if she had gone back to Bathgate but couldn't find her.