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Elisabeth
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1 Feb 2014 13:59 |
I have Alfred Sutton b.1882 leaving London on the Kaiser-I-Hind on 9th June 1916, heading for India. (He died out there in 1922.)
I believe he had been on a visit to England to visit family and would like to know when he was inbound. Was he just here for a few weeks or several years? He was a 'loco driver' in India, having been demobbed from the Army and given 'leave to remain in India' in 1908.
If anyone can look at the Ancestry details for his details I would be most grateful and to know if he was travelling with anyone, perhaps his first wife.. I don't have the correct sub. I would love to have the image for my records if possible.
Thanks for taking the time to read my rambles!
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safc
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1 Feb 2014 14:04 |
????
Alfred Sutton, "India, Marriages, 1792-1948 " Name: Alfred Sutton Birth Date: 1882 Birthplace: Age: 39 Spouse's Name: Elsie Mary Taucord Spouse's Birth Date: 1882 Spouse's Birthplace: Spouse's Age: 39 Event Date: 16 Apr 1921 Event Place: Lahore, Bengal, India Father's Name: John James Sutton Mother's Name: Spouse's Father's Name: William Grindal Spouse's Mother's Name: Race: Marital Status: Previous Wife's Name: Spouse's Race: Spouse's Marital Status: Spouse's Previous Husband's Name: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M75050-8 System Origin: India-EASy GS Film number: 527926 Reference ID:
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Elisabeth
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1 Feb 2014 14:09 |
safc,
Thanks for that - I have it from FMP, and have traced Elsie Mary and her line, forward to Alfred's death and Elsie Mary's next marriage. (Alfred was shown as widower on the 1921 marriage.)
I am just trying to fill in the gap between 1908 in India and Alfred leaving onboard ship in 1916.
Until the new records appeared on FMP in the last few days I didn't have much on Alfred, but it has been a good addition to their records for me.
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Dea
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1 Feb 2014 14:19 |
The 1916 record shows him as a 'loco driver' seemingly travelling alone. Travelling to Bombay.
Country of last permenant residence England - heading to India and intending to stay there.
Dea x
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Dea
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1 Feb 2014 14:22 |
Can't see him coming in to England at the moment.
Dea x
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Elisabeth
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1 Feb 2014 14:22 |
Dea,
Thanks I do have the outbound journey but he must have been inbound at some point pre-June 1916 and believe there is a record on Ancestry which could be him. I don't have the upgraded sub to be able to see the record in full.
Edit: Sorry Dea, we crossed in posting.
Thought there was one if I just entered Alfred b.1882 heading inbound from India.
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ArgyllGran
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1 Feb 2014 14:30 |
Can you give us the details of the possible inbound journey, as far as you can see them, please?
Did he have a middle name?
I know it's a very long shot, but here's an A W Sutton, engine driver, born c1881. Country of last permanent residence: Nigeria (yeah, I said it was a long shot). Country of intended future permanent residence: British Possessions.
[EDIT: No, ignore that. AW Sutton's still travelling around after 1922.]
UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 about A W Sutton Name: A W Sutton Birth Date: abt 1881 Age: 32 Port of Departure: Calabar, Nigeria Arrival Date: 4 Aug 1913 Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England Ports of Voyage: Lagos [Accra] [Plymouth] Ship Name: Akabo Search Ship Database: View the 'Akabo' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database Shipping Line: British and African Steam Navigation Company Ltd Official Number: 115268
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Elisabeth
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1 Feb 2014 14:35 |
Sorry to be making it a difficult search.
I would have expected him to be arriving in 1915/16, though I have no proof of this. He had no other given name, just Alfred. He is not the one you kindly found, and to make it more difficult there were two Alfred Suttons in India,. both loco drivers but the other was Alfred William I think.
The only reason I think he had a first marriage is that he is shown as widower on his marriage to Elsie Mary, but he didn't give his correct father's name, who was deceased, just his eldest brother's name.
Thanks for taking the time to look for me, but don't worry if you can't find him.
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Dea
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1 Feb 2014 14:49 |
A 'maybe' for 1901??
1901 England Census about Alfred Sutton Name: Alfred Sutton Age: 18 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883 Relation to Head: Boarder Gender: Male Birth Place: Frome, Somerset, England Civil Parish: Paddington County/Island: London Country: England Street Address:
Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age George Adlam 40 Jessie Adlam 39 Ada Adlam 13 Winnifred Adlam 8 Frederick Probyn 20 George Griffith 20 Alfred Sutton 18 Railway engine stoker b. Frome, Somerset. Elizabeth Usher 43 Dea x
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Elisabeth
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1 Feb 2014 14:59 |
Thanks Dea but he was in India, in the Army, until 1908 after service in South Africa etc. He hadn't joined the Army until 1899.
I think I will have to be satisfied with what I have already.
Thank you, everyone, for trying to find him.
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Dea
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1 Feb 2014 15:14 |
What fathers name did he give please?
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Elisabeth
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1 Feb 2014 15:22 |
He gave his father's name as John James, but he was his eldest brother, not his father. His father had died in 1917.
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ArgyllGran
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1 Feb 2014 17:39 |
Which regiment was he with, Elisabeth?
Is this him?
UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949 about Alfred Sutton Name: Alfred Sutton Campaign or Service: India Service Date: 1889-1902 Service Location: India Regiment or Unit Name: 1st Battalion Duke of Cornwall Light Infantry Regiment of Foot Regimental Number: 2159
[EDIT: No, the dates don't match what you've said earlier.]
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Elisabeth
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1 Feb 2014 18:21 |
Sorry for delay - feeding the folks.
He was with the Lincolnshire Regiment - for which I have all the documentary evidence from 1899 confirming that he had enlisted.
I have his service record downloaded which did give me the information that he had been given ' permission to remain in India' in 1908.
I am wondering if he returned to UK when war was declared and then didn't enlist again for some reason, so returned to India. There are many possibilities but I am content that I have found his marriage and death in India, so I have been able to complete all the siblings in the family now starting with the family bible entries to their deaths. (He is not my direct line - so not so vital.)
Thanks for your interest and help.
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Chris Ho :)
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1 Feb 2014 19:10 |
(adding for reference)
First name(s): Alfred (Farm Servant) Last name: SUTTON Calculated year of birth: 1881 Parish of birth: Pointon Town of birth: Sleaford County of birth: Lincolnshire Age at attestation: 18 years 5 months Attestation date: 15 November 1899 Attestation corps: Lincolnshire Regiment Attestation soldier number: 5434 Discharge rank: Discharge corps: Discharge soldier number: The National Archives reference: WO97 (South Africa 1899 to 1902)
1891 SUTTON, John Maples Head Married M 32 1859 Agricultural Labourer Horseman Bourne, Lincolnshire SUTTON, Mary Ann Wife Married F 33 1858 Walcott, Lincolnshire SUTTON, John James Son M 11 1880 Ingoldsby, Lincolnshire SUTTON, Alfred Son M 8 1883 Pointon, Lincolnshire SUTTON, George Edward Son M 6 1885 Pointon, Lincolnshire SUTTON, Lilly Daughter F 5 1886 Pointon, Lincolnshire SUTTON, Mary Elizabeth Daughter F 3 1888 Stow, Lincolnshire SUTTON, Bertie Son M 1 1890 Stow, Lincolnshire JOHNSON, Caroline Visitor Single F 28 1863 Walcott, Lincolnshire Piece: 2581 Folio: 28 Page: 17 Registration District: Sleaford Civil Parish: Threckingham Municipal Borough: Address: Stow, Threckingham, Stow County: Lincolnshire
Chris :)
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+++DetEcTive+++
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2 Feb 2014 10:17 |
If an inbound passenger list can't be found, might he have hitched a ride on a Military vessel shortly after his discharge, with the intention of visiting his family?
Those vessels aren't normally shown within the Ancestry collection.
As you haven't found a first marriage in India, he might have married in the UK and settled, only returning to India after her death?
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Elisabeth
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2 Feb 2014 10:28 |
+++DetEcTive+++
I agree with your thoughts and have been mulling it over for a while.
I did look at marriages in UK a while ago, but dismissed most as I could tie them up with other records but I will look again later, when I have a little time.
There is a possibility of coming back with the military after his demob.
It has been a fascinating journey, having 14 children named in the family bible. (I don't have it anymore but have scans of the pages. It has been passed to the family who are carrying on the name which we thought was the right thing to do.) I have them all now hatched, matched and dispatched, which I never expected to do twenty years ago before so many records came online and I was a compete novice.
Thank you for your input.
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Elisabeth
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2 Feb 2014 10:53 |
Just to clarify what I believe of Alfred's first marriage.
I have looked at the family bible records and find that the entries seem to be chronological with the first sibling marrying in 1900, then Alfred with no date, then the next sibling in 1906 and so on. This makes me think Alfred married after 1900 and before 1906 during his time in the army and was widowed at some point, rather than having married in UK. The fact that his father didn't give a date of the marriage makes me think he didn't know exactly - perhaps he just had a letter informing him of a marriage.
I am not asking for further help really, just clarifying things in my own mind. (I do often talk to myself!)
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