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Margaret
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25 Jan 2014 22:36 |
I'm searching for my g.g.grandfather's parents in Wigan. He was Peter Howarth b. 1819 in Wigan to John Howarth and Elizabeth. These names are on his bapt., at All Saint's church, Wigan. Also have Peter's marriage in 1841 again All Saints and gives father as John Howarth, warper. Have census 1841/51/61 etc for Peter and his wife Jane, no probs there. I have some details from a census? for Elizabeth but not sure if it is 1841 or 1851. She is age 55, no husband. At Swinley, Wigan. Alice Howarth age 25 Ellen Howarth age 15 Thomas age 15 Israel Howarth age 6, who I presume is grandson? I think her husband John had died by this time, so I checked bmd's/parish records and there are two deaths, 1836 before civil reg. and 1839. I don't want to send for the death cert until I'm absolutely sure. These deaths are also on the Wigan cemetery index, but no other details.
I've checked everywhere for a marriage of John to Elizabeth, all church records in Wigan, Familysearch, Ancestry and not finding anything. Hence no maiden name for her. I've had this family on hold for a while and am now trying to go again with them, any help would be much appreciated. Cheers Margaret.
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alviegal
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25 Jan 2014 22:51 |
Baptism: 3 May 1819 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England Peter Howarth - 1 Son of John Howarth & Elizabeth Born: 10 Feb Abode: Wigan lane Occupation: Warper Baptised by: Edwd. Hill Curate Register: Baptisms 1816 - 1819, Page 289, Entry 2308 Source: LDS Film 1885676
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alviegal
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25 Jan 2014 22:55 |
It was the 1841 you had found. The 'Born in County' column has not been filled in for anyone on this side of the page.
1841 census transcription details for: Buckley House End, Wigan Print Close
National Archive Reference: RG number: HO107 Piece: 523 Book/Folio: 11/53 Page: 18 Reg. District: Wigan Sub District: Wigan Parish: Wigan Enum. District: Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Wigan Address: Buckley House End, Wigan County: Lancashire Name Relation Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born HOWARTH, Elizh F 55 1786 HOWARTH, Alice F 25 1816 HOWARTH, Ellen F 15 1826 HOWARTH, Thos M 15 1826 HOWARTH, Israel M 8 1833
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Margaret
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25 Jan 2014 22:55 |
Thanks, yes, I have these details, there were 3 daughters as well, one being Alice on the census with Elizabeth.
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Margaret
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25 Jan 2014 22:56 |
I had an idea it was, but it was years ago and I hadn't written the date, just going off the age of Alice the dau.
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alviegal
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25 Jan 2014 23:04 |
This death looks pretty good. Same address.
Burial: 14 Jan 1829 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England John Howarth - Age: 60 Abode: Wigan Lane Cause of Death: Weakness Buried by: J.Bromilow Register: Burials 1824 - 1830, Page 244, Entry 1945 Source: LDS Film 1885701
and a possible son?
Burial: 13 May 1835 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England John Howarth - Son of John Howarth Age: 5 Years Abode: Wigan Lane Cause of Death: Weakness Buried by: H. O.Neill Register: Burials 1834 - 1839, Page 22, Entry 170 Source: LDS Film 1885702
Possible birth for him.
Baptism: 2 Aug 1830 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England John Howarth - 3 Son of John Howarth & Elizabeth Born: 10 Jul Abode: Wigan lane Occupation: Weaver Baptised by: Edwd. Hill Curate Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1830, Page 284, Entry 2268 Source: LDS Film 1885677
All from http://www.lan-opc.org.uk
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Margaret
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25 Jan 2014 23:07 |
Yes, that looks good to me also, I was looking ten yrs later, as I was guessing his age. I'll check that out no probs.
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alviegal
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25 Jan 2014 23:09 |
This is one of the ones you found which is also the same address.
Burial: 17 Apr 1839 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England John Howarth - Age: 67 Years Abode: Chapel Lane Cause of Death: Decay Buried by: Charles Bisset Curate Register: Burials 1834 - 1839, Page 286, Entry 2284 Source: LDS Film 1885702
Could this be the John you are looking for and the one above is possibly his father??
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Margaret
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25 Jan 2014 23:24 |
This John in 1839 is the one I was thinking, due to ages of children on bapt, pity there are no other details such as informant of death. If John d. 1830 is son of my John and Elizabeth, then John snr was still alive. Why didn't he stick around for the 1841 census, too easy that. :-)
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alviegal
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25 Jan 2014 23:24 |
Baptism: 29 Apr 1821 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England Ellen Howarth - 4 Daur. of John Howarth & Elizabeth Born: 25 Apr Abode: Wigan lane Occupation: Weaver Baptised by: Benjn. Powell Register: Baptisms 1819 - 1822, Page 184, Entry 1468 Source: LDS Film 1885676
Baptism: 13 Jul 1823 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England Ellen Howarth - 4 Daur. of John Howarth & Elizabeth Born: 29 Apr Abode: Wigan Lane Occupation: Weaver Baptised by: Edwd. Hill Curate Register: Baptisms 1822 - 1825, Page 121, Entry 964 Source: LDS Film 1885677
Baptism: 26 Jun 1825 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England Thomas Howarth - 2 Son of John Howarth & Elizabeth Born: 12 Apr Abode: Wigan Lane Occupation: Weaver Baptised by: G. Goodwill Curate Register: Baptisms 1825 - 1827, Page 42, Entry 332 Source: LDS Film 1885677
Baptism: 1 Jan 1828 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England Elizabeth Howarth - 6 Daur. of John Howarth & Elizabeth Born: 14 Jul 1827 Abode: Wigan Lane Occupation: Warpe [sic] Baptised by: J. Bromilow Curate Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1830, Page 17, Entry 132 Source: LDS Film 1885677
Baptism: 2 Aug 1830 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England John Howarth - 3 Son of John Howarth & Elizabeth Born: 10 Jul Abode: Wigan lane Occupation: Weaver Baptised by: Edwd. Hill Curate Register: Baptisms 1827 - 1830, Page 284, Entry 2268 Source: LDS Film 1885677
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Margaret
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25 Jan 2014 23:47 |
Thank you for your help and info, will get all this into my records, sometimes an extra pair of eyes does the trick. I'm now wondering if John and Elizabeth did indeed get married as I'm not finding it.
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Christina(Lancashire)
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26 Jan 2014 00:38 |
Possible marriage for John & Elizabeth...
Marriage: 29 Oct 1811 All Saints, Hindley, Lancashire, England John Howarth - (X), Warper, Bachelor, Hindley Township Betty Balderston - (X), Spinster, Hindley Township Witness: Jno Percival; John Richardson Married by Banns by: Geo. Henderick, Curate Register: Marriages 1807 - 1812, Page 69, Entry 232 Source: LDS Film 93751
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
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mgnv
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26 Jan 2014 08:17 |
Marriage: 23 May 1841 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire, England Peter Howarth - (X), 22 Throstle Spinner Bachelor of Wigan Lane Jane Rowlinson - (X), 22 Throstle Spinner Spinster of Wigan Lane Groom's Father: John Howarth, Warper Bride's Father: John Rowlinson, Weaver Witness: John Baron; Alice Howarth, (X) Married by Banns by: Charles Bisset Curate Register: Marriages 1840 - 1842, Page 95, Entry 190 Source: LDS Film 1885694
1841 England Census Transcription Street:GRAYSONS YARD Parish:WIGAN City:WIGAN County:Lancashire Country:ENGLAND House Number:- House Name:- Registration District:WIGAN Town:- Record set:1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Archive Reference:HO107 Piece Number:523 Book:11 Folio:39 Page:22
THOMAS BARON 1816 25 Brush washer ELLEN BARON 1821 20 Tents family ANN BARON 1839 2 -------------- PETER HOWARTH 1821 20 Spinner JANE HOWARTH 1821 20 Spinner -------------- AGNES MCCANN 1826 15 Spinner -------------- JNO ROWLINSON 1826 15 Spinner
Also living in Grayson's Yard (in other houses) are: Piece Folio Page Full name ============================= HO107/523 11/38 20 HOWARTH, Mary 70 Winder HO107/523 11/38 20 HOWARTH, Mary(Jnr) 45 Weaver HO107/523 11/38 20 HOWARTH, Ellen 35 Weaver HO107/523 11/38 20 HOWARTH, Thomas 15 Winder factory ------------------------ HO107/523 11/38 21 HOWARTH, John 50 Warper ------------------------ HO107/523 11/38 21 TAYLOR, John 5 ============================= ... ============================= HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, Peter 40 Weaver HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, John 20 Maker up of Lard? HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, Moses 15 Maker up of Lard? HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, Aaron 10 Knitter HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, Margaret 8 HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, Ellen 4 HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, Mary Ann 1 HO107/523 11/38 21 BARON, Ann 40 Winder =============================
So sis Alice is one witness, and maybe that John Baron is the other - now John is possibly his cousin:
Births Mar 1840 (>99%) Baron Mary Ann Wigan 21 828
would fit with John's sister, and using http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1840 Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference BARON Mary Ann Wigan Wigan & Leigh HOWARTH WIG/6/177
I think John the Warper (at top of 1841 page opposite Peter) is Pete's dad.
Grayson's Yard 14, Freckleton Street http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/stuff/yards.php?opt=yards [Freckleton Street runs between Wigan Lane and Swinley Lane, abt 200m S of the Infirmary, so also in Swinley]
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Margaret
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26 Jan 2014 14:32 |
Thank you Christina and mgnv for your input. I did originally thnk John age 50 the warper was Pete's dad but what threw me was Elizabeth being at a different address and I do also appreciate that in those days families did tend to do this. Mary 70 and family are Taylors which I have also researched. I thought I had Peter and Jane's marriage cert but can't find it, would the marriage entry online show father deceased as this doesn't. Peter's second marriage cert to Ellen Winstanley I have and this shows father John deceased but this was several yrs later. Maybe the 1851 census for Elizabeth could hold more clues, I'm unsure. I'll have a look at the bmd's for Mary Baron & Howarth, just needed fresh eyes on this to get going again. Cheers everyone, Margaret.
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mgnv
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26 Jan 2014 20:02 |
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ do normally transcribe "(deceased)" or whatever, if it's present. However, I don't see that in any of the 500 entries (so 1000 parents) in Peter's 1840-1842 rego, so I guess it wasn't asked or recorded. Actually, whatever they say is not 100% reliable in my experience. Here's a bro & sis getting wed elsewhere in Wigan RD - since their dad's Richard, not Lazarus, I think one can conclude one of them's in error:
Marriage: 25 Aug 1894 St Elizabeth of Hungary, Aspull, Lancs. Robert Hill - 21, Collier, Bachelor, Heyes Square, higher Gullet, Aspull Ellen Westhead - 21, Pit-Brow Woman, Spinster, 2 Leigh's Yard, Hr. Gullet, Aspull Groom's Father: Richard Hill, (decd.), Collier Bride's Father: John Westhead, (decd), Collier Witness: Emmanuel Seddon; Alice Hill, (X) Married by Banns by: George F. Grundy M.A. Vicar Register: Marriages 1883 - 1907, Page 101, Entry 202 Source: LDS Film 1885720 Marriage: 13 Oct 1894 St Elizabeth of Hungary, Aspull, Lancs. Emmanuel Seddon - 20, Collier, Bachelor, 284 Chorley Road, Wingates, Westhoughton Mary Jane Hill - 19, Pit-Brow Woman, Spinster, 11 Lr. Gullet, Aspull Groom's Father: Emmanuel Seddon, Collier Bride's Father: Richard Hill, Collier Witness: Thomas Westwell; Sarah Barstow Married by Banns by: George F. Grundy M.A. Vicar Register: Marriages 1883 - 1907, Page 102, Entry 203 Source: LDS Film 1885720
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Margaret
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26 Jan 2014 20:43 |
Thanks mgnv, yes, I've also found inconsistences, especially in the LDS records. Loved the Lazarus bit. I have checked my 1841 census image, and can't see how I missed the Baron family, obviously focussed too much inside the box, I can now try and tie them in. Cheers M.
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