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We think so yes, I am going to a family reunion in a couple of weeks and will be grilling my wider family just in case someone has nugget of info.

Patricia,

Did the family live there with him - i.e. were all the children born in Bolton?

Thanks

I know its a mystery!! He died of stomach cancer and definitely lived in the Horwich district of Bolton. He was about 40 and the family seem to think only just. Gran saw him before his death and I think she was about 8 so roughly 1933 to 35 was what I was working on.

patchem I know Bucklow and Bolton aren't next door, but they are closer than Staines Middlesex for example ;-)

I agree with you for sure, we would expect to find a telephone listing for example

I am not familiar with electoral rolls, my own research is generally farther in the past, but could they be checked for the period 1920-1935 for any trace ?

there just isn't any information at all that matches Bryn's information, no marriage, no death, no births, no telephone listing, no apparent WWII deaths of sons ...

Could you confirm that he definitely had 7 children and died around 1935?

Thanks

That's a great site and gives me another avenue to search from a different angle. Gives me some hope, thanks everyone I am really grateful for this help. My wife has now loaded her family tree so I am hoping matches will help with the gaps.

Bryn, searching at

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx

for Lamb
died in WWI (edit, oops, I meant WWII)
served with UK forces
served in Air Force

there are 43 results ... have you been through them to see whether any has any info that would connect him to Charles?


The thing is ... 1915-1935, there were 17 Lamb births in Bolton

there is no set of more than 5 (mother Twist in that case) that had the same mother
(and the Twist births start in 1915 and go to 1927 thus overlapping almost all the others)

If some or all of the children were born in Bolton,
either there were two marriages,
or some of the children were born somewhere else.

actually, wait

the Twist births start in 1912 and the total is 7 (unless any born before 1912)

but the marriage was probably

Marriages Jun 1909
LAMB John Thomas Bolton 8c 657
TWIST Esther Bolton 8c 657

they had 1 child in 1911
(any of the later children could have died in infancy of course)

the only WWI death who might match one of their sons and the info given was

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2682875/LAMB,%20JOHN

for whom there is no personal info in that record

Sorry, I missed out reading some of the information found above as I did not refresh the page.

I do not think Bucklow is really near Bolton - they are the opposite sides of Manchester.

I was looking for Charles Lamb in Bolton. Or even C Lamb.
If Winifred was in service locally that was where I was expecting the telephone.
If he was in business I was expecting that a telephone would be needed by now (1920's to 1930's).

If the information was known about the family some years after his death i.e. death of his children, then presumably they lived locally or somehow stayed in touch?

Thank you for all your help!! What I can tell you is my gran was adopted but her sister also by Charles was kept by grandmas birth family, they were full sister and he isn't detailed on either birth certificate. Gladys Dean Howarth (curious middle name) was born 16 Jun 1924 Bolton and Joan Howarth was born 29 August 1925 in Hope Hospital Salford Manchester. Their mother is Winifred Howarth born 1903 in Bolton. Charles was in business of some kind and it now turns out he had 7 kids with his wife. One of his sons was in the RAF and was shot down and killed.

question for me ?

Telephone listings are by initial only

there are a gazillion telephone listings for C Lamb and variations (CA, CW, FC ...) in the general vicinity

in Bolton 1915-25 there are Lambs in Bolton - H and M

he might not have lived there for a long period, he might have had a flat there while family lived in the country ... (to have two children with a domestic servant is a little unusual, ordinarily the servant would have been let go after the first !)

If he was 'a man of means' why did he not have a telephone?

as Flip says - at least knowing year and location of birth would help



the only Lamb listings in the telephone directory for 1925-1935 in Bolton are
H Lamb 1927
M lamb 1927
Inn Lamb ? 1925 1930


for Lamb births in Bolton 1915-1935 there are (picking the largest groups)

3 mother's surname Wood (1916-1928)
4 mother's surname Twist (1917-1927)
4 mother's surname Wood (1925-1933)

father not Charles in any case


the telephone directory shows a Mrs C Lamb in Altrincham ('Green end Hawley dr H') in the early 1930s, not a world away from Bolton, I wondered whether that could be his widow ... from Google street view Hawley Dr seems a bit of a spiffy address. In 1930 the address belonged to F C Lamb ...


Bryn I tried searching CWGC for Lambs with the keyword 'bolton', which would find men whose parents or wives are shown and who resided in Bolton, but no results

(Altrincham found one result but the parents of Richard were Alfred and Ellen)


what if he were F... Charles Lamb and went by Charles, making him FC but his widow MrsC? ... Frederick C Lamb 1857 died 1928 Bucklow reg dist ... but there are two FC Lambs in the directories around then and a separate Mrs FC Lamb at the other address ...

FC Lamb was first and last listed at the Hawley Dr address in 1932, MrsC also listed there in 1932 and onward


Marriages Sep 1914
Hersch Muriel Lamb Chorlton 8c 1745
LAMB Frederick C Hersch Chorlton 8c 1745

Deaths Jun 1968
LAMB MURIEL 74 (c1892) BUCKLOW 10A 129

Deaths Jun 1934 ?
Lamb Charles 55 (c1879) Bucklow 8a 253

Lamb-Hirsch births
1918 Bucklow
1919 Bucklow
1923 Bucklow

this FC Lamb could have had more children by 1934 in a second marriage or relationship

there is a Frederick C Lamb marriage to Stocks in 1927 Liverpool and 2 children to that marriage 1929-1930
but Frederick Charles Lamb 1903 died 1999 in Liverpool

however ... there is a Lamb-Morris birth in Bolton 1931
which does not well with the pattern of births for Lamb-Morris marriages around the time (in Lanchester, Lancaster, Birmingham, Birkenhead)
and there are lots of Morris-Morris births in Bolton before 1931


just a theory :-D


btw the Frederick Charles Lamb from Staines Mdsx gave his occupation in his WWI service records, age 22, as groom, so he is not likely; his wife was Ada Annie Goodchild and their children were all born in Staines

Bryn, are you able or willing to give the birth details of you gran and her sister? It's just that parish records for christenings sometimes contain more info - like the alleged father.

If he was 'a man of means' then obituary in local newspaper?

I'm definitely agreeing with you patchem - that is the obvious choice for a name Anglicized to Lamb, and while Carlo was too old to fit the bill, his son Charles does the job pretty well !

except yes, not for the location maybe ...

-edit- and never mind, Charles Walter L Agnellino born 1902 died 1989 in Merton Surrey


I imagine Bryn doesn't have more info unfortunately ... like my relation who was a housemaid before the turn of the century and had a child whose father is believed to have been the master of the house where she worked, and all we know is his surname ...

JoonieCloonie,
I was just trying out Carl* and Italian or Spanish for Lamb and other combinations using a terrible latin pronunciation, and that was the best I could find.
But the family seemed rather too attached to Lambeth when I looked further.
Just put up the name for interest.

I was doing the same thing as MarieCeleste when I woke up but I had not had my coffee and I forgot to submit it :-)


a very lot of men named Lamb died in WWII ... it is always striking to see things like that ...

but searching with Charles as a keyword finds only one whose father was Charles (not as a middle name)

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2117012/LAMB,%20JOHN%20JOSEPH

John Joseph son of Charles and Margaret Lamb of Blackburn, Lancashire,
was in the Royal Northumberland Fusiliers, aged 35, died 7 Aug 1942
so born c1907, meaning his father would have been born not much later than 1885

if a man was married his wife's name would be given rather than parents', and for many men no personal info is listed

some more info would indeed be useful if not essential ... if we had the names of the men who died we could see whether parents were named on the cwgc record


patchem your Carlo had a son Charles

1911 census in Lambeth per Ancestry

Carlo Agnellins 37 waiter born Naples
Alice Agnellins 34
> Charles Agnellins 8
Margerita Agnellins 3
Ernest Agnellins 0
Frances Cheal 35

Marriages Dec 1925
Agnellino Charles W Hunt Lambeth 1d 476
Hunt Rose M Agnellino Lambeth 1d 476

there are many Lamb-Hunt births but none seem to match that one particularly

Births Sep 1902
Agnellino Charles W L Marylebone 1a 532

Looking on CWGC there were 278 men with the surname Lamb who died during WW2, it would just be a case of plodding through all of them to find two who could be brothers (there are probably a few who can be quickly eliminated by the service they were in, e.g. Canadian Air Force).

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx

Of course, if the father was only known as Charles Lamb then the brother's deaths could be recorded in their actual surname.

Thank you every one I know this is a toughy!! I have looked at all Charles Lamb's that died around 1935. My gran apparently saw him just before he died and she was primary school age at the time born 1925. We believe he emigrated to the UK not born here, he married a woman here and I surmise this must have been around 1915 to 1920 they had 6 children, I don't have much info on them but I don't know how to search for Lambs who died during the war who were born in Bolton. Grandmas mum was in service in his household we think. I have so little to go on, my only thought is that he retained his original name for official stuff like census. I looked for 6 Lambs with mother maiden name the same but only found English fathers. I wish gran was still here to ask!!