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7 Jan 2014 10:03 |
Before commenting please read carefully as I have asked for stuff before - but this has thrown up a problem with info I have already!
Stuff I have proof of!
Henry C H Strong was born Kennerleigh,Devon 1836 He went to India (Army 107th regiment of foot) and married Winifred Divine (Father Patrick) in Kussowlie 25/07/1867. They had a son George 1868 -died 1869 -buried Allahabad They had a son William HJ Strong 21/12/1870 -Allahabad They had a son Henry C H Strong 1873 Gwalior or East Indies
Henry married again in Jul 1881 - he is back in Devon England in Crediton. with his son William. (But on census is already living with new wife Elizabeth)
Married Elizabeth Mary Gallant JAS 1881 Exeter Inferred County: Devon Volume Number: 5b Page Number: 167
He married again to Mary Ann Carpenter -widow (nee Crump) in 1892 Devon
(Yes! I know everthing after that about him thanks so please don't waste energy/time looking for me :)) - he was a rascal!
MY PUZZLE!!!!!
I have a death cert for Winifred Divine aged 28 dying of Puerperal fever 7 days after birth of a child. Dated 6/feb/1879 - which ties in with him with new wife in 1881. (The cert names the husband as Henry Strong) although I think they thought he looked too old as had stated to write 'Father' and changed to husband. If the correct one though he was a lot older than her -( he would have been 43 to her 28) It is registered at Porthsea Hampshire. Address of death 51 Gloucester road. Cannot find a birth reg. for the baby either- thought that would help.
Name: Winifred Strong Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851 Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1879 Age at Death: 28 Registration District: Portsea Island Inferred County: Hampshire Volume: 2b Page: 314
Now I just found baptisms (Actually at the church) in Sandford crediton,Devon of babies called Winifred Strong and Elizabeth Strong . Baptised 17 March 1876. but beside parents names (Winifrede and Henry Strong- Father a soldier) it says dead! it is not clear who 'dead' refers to! Henry was well and truly alive -didn't not die till 1914 - Exeter Devon. (Army Pensioner on cert) and now not sure about Winifred! - cannot see any other likely Henry and Winifred for the death cert I have though. :(
Could they have had newborn deceased twins baptised? It looks like they were registered born and died the same quarter. Both Crediton JFM 1876
Anyone any ideas please.-I'd be very grateful
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MargaretM
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7 Jan 2014 10:38 |
Is this the son William in 1881 with grandparents named Alford? How does that name fit in?
1881 England Census about William Strong Name: William Strong Age: 10 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871 Relationship to Head: Grandson Gender: Male Where born: India Civil Parish: Sandford County/Island: Devon Country: England Street Address: Hattins Occupation: Scholar Registration District: Crediton Sub-registration District: Cheriton Fitzpaine ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2231 Folio: 83 Page Number: 9 Household Members: Name Age James Alford 54 Elizabeth Alford 67 William Strong 10
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MargaretM
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7 Jan 2014 10:43 |
What about this son Henry?
1881 England Census about Henry Strong Name: Henry Strong Age: 7 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874 Relationship to Head: Son Father: Henry Strong Mother: Elizabeth Strong Gender: Male Where born: Gwalior, East Indies Civil Parish: Crediton County/Island: Devon Country: England Street Address: Blatherstone
Occupation: Scholar Registration District: Crediton Sub-registration District: Crediton ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2230 Folio: 15 Page Number: 7 Household Members: Name Age Henry Strong 45 Elizabeth Strong 30 Henry Strong 7
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Familyfinder
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7 Jan 2014 10:51 |
Margee- Elizabeth was Elizabeth Strong - she remarried to James Alford. She was married to Charles Strong , Henry C H Strong's dad. He died shortly after Henry's birth.
Sorry- missed off Henry Charles Howard Junior! - my mum rang while I was trying to type up! -Yes he's Winfred and Henry's too. He was born 1873 East Indies or Gwalior depending on where you look! I have his marriage cert linking him definitely too.
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Gee
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7 Jan 2014 11:06 |
Cannot find a birth reg. for the baby either- thought that would help
Maybe it was a still birth and wouldn't have been registered with the GRO?
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MargaretM
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7 Jan 2014 11:11 |
I can't see the death of Winifred on FreeBMD.
Edit: Oops! This one?
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Winifred Strong Name: Winifred Strong Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851 Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1879 Age at Death: 28 Registration District: Portsea Island Inferred County: Hampshire Volume: 2b Page: 314
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Familyfinder
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7 Jan 2014 11:11 |
Yes :( I thought that - poor woman. If it is her- looks like she lost 4 babies out of 6 . I think I will have to order the possible twins certs and see if that sheds any more light. Thanks for ur help .
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Mel Fairy Godmother
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7 Jan 2014 11:20 |
They are twins because they have the same refs.
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Elizabeth Strong Name: Elizabeth Strong Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1876 Registration District: Crediton Inferred County: Devon Volume: 5b Page: 430
Death
Name: Elizabeth Strong Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876 Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1876 Age at Death: 0 Registration District: Crediton Inferred County: Devonshire Volume: 5b Page: 318
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Winifred Strong Name: Winifred Strong Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1876 Registration District: Crediton Inferred County: Devon Volume: 5b Page: 430
Death
Winifred Strong Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876 Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1876 Age at Death: 0 Registration District: Crediton Inferred County: Devonshire Volume: 5b Page: 318
I think they only issued births certs if the baby drew breath.
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Familyfinder
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7 Jan 2014 11:24 |
Thats what I thought for the twins. Must order certs then.
The stillbirth is the one in 1879 -she died of Puerperal fever-7 days after giving birth- but as there is no birth recorded of a 'Strong' baby in the right area etc then guess it was a stillbirth as not recorded. Sad for her - and doesn't help much!
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Familyfinder
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7 Jan 2014 11:26 |
Yes Margee -thats the death- the only thing that is remotely likely really- and the husband that registered is called Henry - strange he gives his occupation as a Grocer's assistant though. All the rest of the time he was 'Army pensioner' or similar. I'm half wondering if he was trying to disappear for a while ......
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Familyfinder
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7 Jan 2014 11:28 |
Or the only other is-my mum just said- maybe the priest visited and baptised too very sick babies and they died while he was there. When he then entered it in the register he simply added (dead) beside the entry.
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Familyfinder
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7 Jan 2014 11:29 |
Thanks guys- I have to go to work now -but wil pop back later incase a genius has found something else! x
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+++DetEcTive+++
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7 Jan 2014 12:09 |
Do the baptisms have a margin note? Baptised Privately often have the notation BP and, as your mum suggests, the Priest has been sent for if they weren't expected to survive. In all likelihood the 'Dead' does mean that by the time he came to enter the event, they had died but not that he was necessarily present when they did.
Have you been able to find a church burial record for the Winifred and Elizabeth infants.? As they were baptised, they would be named.
You might also try searching for burial records for the child of Winifred around about the same time as her death. The child might have been buried with her, or in someone else's coffin. The entry might just show 'infant' rather than a name if it were still born
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Familyfinder
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7 Jan 2014 13:59 |
Thanks detective,
No- nothing in margin other than dead.
Surprisingly i couldn't find burials for them in the same parish as the christening - hoping the death cert may help there. In theory it could have been up to 3 months later really that they died- so could have been anywhere. (though unlikely) Have ordered a birth and death cert for twins - a birth for one and a death for other to cover most things - thought may have different people registering them possibly. may end up ordering lal of them -ouch!
I have tried to find a burial for Winifred the mum,but not managed to find it yet . Have emailed the burials bit in relevant area but they never replied :(. Must look again as more online all the time.
Thanks for your help though x
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+++DetEcTive+++
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7 Jan 2014 17:06 |
If DEAD was in the margin, then it would refer to the infant. If it was in the father's occupation column, then yes, it could cause you some confusion.
In any case, the certs you have sent for will sort out things for you ;-)
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JoonieCloonie
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7 Jan 2014 17:53 |
I wonder whether the birth of the child born just before Winifred died might have been registered a little late due to events.
An Ernest Edward Strong was registered in Alverstoke in the 2nd quarter of 1879. That could also tie in with Henry's military occupation.
Was Henry a bigamist on his 3rd marriage?
In 1891, that Ernest Edward is with widowed mother Mary I (J?) Strong aged 35 born Clapton, in Alverstoke.
Actually, yes?
1881 in Alverstoke
Name: Henry H. Strong Age: 41 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840 Relationship to Head: Head Spouse: Mary J. Strong Where born: Barnet, Middlesex, England Civil Parish: Alverstoke County/Island: Hampshire Street Address: 2 Cambridge Villas Marital Status: Married Occupation: Major Royal Marines
Henry H. Strong 41 Mary J. Strong 29 Henry S. Strong 7 Frederic L.H. Strong 6 Mary M. Strong 4 >>> Ernest E. Strong 1 James D. Strong Emma E. Doughty 20 Rosina E.A. Scorey 19
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JoonieCloonie
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7 Jan 2014 17:58 |
wait, wait, I have found a doppelganger it seems! :-)
'Henry married again in Jul 1881 - he is back in Devon England in Crediton. with his son William. (But on census is already living with new wife Elizabeth)'
but the ages and names and facts are all so similar :-D
I will leave it there as it rules out that 1879 child's birth it seems.
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mgnv
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7 Jan 2014 21:56 |
Gwalior is just over 300km S of Delhi. From the 1750s thru 1858, India was pretty much run as a private empire of the East India Trading Company - this was set up to run Asian trade, but the Dutch managed to control Indonesia (nutmeg/cloves), and the Brits settled for India. Running India was taken over in the 1850-1870s by the British government following the 1857 rebellion (sometimes called the Sepoy Revolt).
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Familyfinder
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11 Jan 2014 13:25 |
Joonie Cloonie- yes thanks I have everything on henry -but no he wasn't a bigamist -have death certs of first two wives :) The other Henry H Strong isn't him at all.
Its just the twins I was trying to sort.
I now have their Certs -they came in record speed!
Twins died - both of them -premature -Winifred only 6 hours after birth -so looks like it did sadly refer to them. But at least the local priest baptised them.Thanks for help everyone.
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