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patchem
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6 Jan 2014 19:30 |
Sorry, you have said she states maiden name is Phillips on marriage certificate, and father's surname Phillips on death certificate.
Where does she state 'Carroll' - could you tell us which censuses?
Thank-you
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patchem
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6 Jan 2014 19:10 |
Thank-you for your explanation, Margie.
Is this your grandparents' marriage, and, if so, have you got the certificate?
Marriages Jun 1886 HEAD Thomas Dartford 2a 695 PHILLIPS Mary Dartford 2a 695
Thank-you.
Added: If her maiden name is Carroll on your father's birth certificate. then you need a marriage between 1877 and 1885 of Mary Ann Carroll to Mr Phillips,
If she lied about her age, then depends who married who? Marriages Mar 1876 Carroll Mary Ann Shoreditch 1c 263 Hayes Caroline Shoreditch 1c 263 Herbert Garrett Shoreditch 1c 263 Phillips Alfred Shoreditch 1c 263
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THOMAS
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6 Jan 2014 18:39 |
Here is info that I have and know it is 100% correct as I have my father's birth certificate and his marriage certificate .IT APPEARS AS IF MY GRANDMOTHER WAS MARRIED ONCE BEFORE SHE MARRIED MY GRANDFATHER WHICH EXPLAINS THE TWO NAMES YET THERE IS NO RECORD OF A MARY ANN PHILLIPS MARRYING A CARROLL.
MY FATHERS NAMES WAS( THOMAS RICHARD HEAD 1889) BORN IN DARTFORD ENGLAND/ DIED IN CANADA / SERVED IN THE 1ST WORLD WAR .HE WAS MARRIED THREE TIMES BUT NO RECORD OR NAME OF HIS 1ST WIFE.HE WAS A WIDOWER WHEN HE CAME TO CANADA AND HE MARRIED BERYL BIDDLE IN 1923 HERE IN CANADA.WE THINK HE MAY HAVE MARRIED THE 1ST WIFE WHILE IN THE WAR.
MY GRANDFATHER WAS THOMAS RICHARD HEAD AND HE WAS BORN IN 1865 IN DARTFORD ENGLAND. WOULD LOVE TO KNOW HOW HE DIED AND WHEN .HE MARRIED MARY ANN CARROL (PHILLIPS)IN 1886 .
MARY ANN PHILLIPS WAS BORN IN 1861 IN KENT ENGLAND AND SHE DIED IN CANADA .SHE HAD TWO CHILDREN WITH THOMAS AND THEY WERE (MY DAD-THOMAS RICHARD HEAD AND ADA HEAD(1893).BOTH BORN IN ENGLAND.
I REALLY HOPE TO GET SOME INFO ON MARY ANNS PARENTS BUT IT IS NOT LOOKING GOOD.JUST DO NOT KNOW HOW TO FIND THEM . I AM NOT GIVING UP JUST YET THOUGH.
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME AND I HAVE TO KEEP LOOKING BECAUSE I REALLY WANT TO BUILD THE FAMILY TREE . I DEAL WITH SEVERE PHYSICAL PAIN AND EMOTIONAL PAIN ON A DAILY BASIS AND DOING RESEARCH IS ONE THING I ENJOY DOING.MY DAD WAS MY BEST FRIEND AND I ADORED HIM .HE TOOK A PART OF ME WITH HIM WHEN HE DIED.
MY MOTHER WAS ALWAYS MAD AT ME AND SHE NEVER EVER TOLD ME "SHE LOVED ME". THERE WERE NO HUGS OR KISSES,NO BEDTIME STORIES,NO PRAISES FROM HER AND SHE ALWAYS SAID"I CURSED THE DAY YOU WERE BORN AND WISHED YOU NEVER WERE". IF A PERSONS OWN MOTHER COULD NOT LOVE THEM THEN THEY MUST HAVE BEEN BORN FROM A BAD SEED.BEING SEVERELY ABUSED ALL MY LIFE BY OTHERS HAS LEFT ME FEELING LIKE I AM TRASH. I WILL DIE FEELING LIKE I AM TRASH AND SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BORN.
MY FATHER ALWAYS SHOWED HE LOVED ME AND HE WAS MY ONE JOY IN LIFE . I MISS HIM SO VERY MUCH. MY PARENTS HAD EIGHT CHILDREN TOGETHER.
THANKS FOR WANTING TO HELP ME FIND MY GRAND MOTHERS PARENTS . MY NAME IS : MARGIE
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PricklyHolly
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6 Jan 2014 12:58 |
HI THOMAS
PLEASE CAN YOU POST THE CENSUS RECORDS WHERE MARY ANN APPEARS WITH THE SURNAME OF "CARROLL"
OF........IF YOU CAN TELL US WHERE SHE IS, WE CAN TAKE A LOOK.
I CAN'T FIND A MARRIAGE ENTRY FOR A MARY ANN PHILLIPS TO A CARROLL.
PRICKLES.
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ChristinaS
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6 Jan 2014 08:13 |
Have you already traced back on your father's paternal side?
1891 census - Blackwall Lane - Greenwich Thomas Head - head - 26 - general labourer - Dartford Mary Head - wife - 30 - Dartford Thomas R. Head - son - 2 - Dartford
1871 census - South Street, Dartford Richard Head - head - 35 - labourer in brickfield - Swanley Mary Ann Head - wife - 33 - Crockenhill Richard Head - son - 11 - scholar - Dartford Doreas Head - dau - 10 - scholar - Dartford Thomas Head - son - 5 - Dartford Ada Head - dau - 1 - Dartford John Head - son - 3 mons - Dartford
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patchem
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5 Jan 2014 13:08 |
Looks to be born in Greenwich and answers No to whether he is married
Canada, Soldiers of the First World War, 1914-1918 about Thomas Richard Head Name: Thomas Richard Head Birth Date: 1 Jan 1888 Birth Location: Erunwich Kint, England Relative: Mrs Thomas Head Regiment Number: 27669
Got birth year wrong?? He joined in 1914, he had already had experience in the RAMC and the RHA, his profession was shipper, and his address was 90 Russell House, Yonge Street, Toronto (or similar)
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patchem
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5 Jan 2014 13:04 |
Do you know where and when Thomas Richard Head, 1865, died, and is this Thomas 1889 after war service?
Thomas R Head Date of Arrival: 31 Mar 1919 Vessel: Empress of Britain Search Ship Database: View the 'Empress of Britain' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database Port of Arrival: St.John, New Brunswick Port of Departure: Halifax, Nova Scotia Roll: T-14837
rank: Private, Dependant: Mother
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Potty
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5 Jan 2014 13:01 |
I wonder if this is just a coincidence: 1881 England Census Name:Mary Ann Phillips Age:17 Estimated Birth Year:abt 1864 Relationship to Head:Sister Dartford, Kent, England Civil Parish:Woolwich County/Island:London Country:England Street Address:1 Albert Street Occupation:Dress Maker
Maria W. Piddle 24 - it is Biddle on the image Sidney T. K. Piddle Mary Ann Phillips 17
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PricklyHolly
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5 Jan 2014 11:16 |
Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960 Transcription First Name: EVANGELINE Last Name: BIDDLE Title: - Age Transcribed: 47 Year: 1923 Departure Month: 7 Departure Day: 13 Ship name: MONTCALM Ship Departure Port: LIVERPOOL Destination Port: QUEBEC State: - Country: CANADA Destination: QUEBEC Destination Place Country: CANADA Gender: Female Marital Status: - Occupation: HOUSEWIFE Year Of Birth: 1876 Birth Month: - Birth Day: - Country Of Birth: - Last Residence Country: - UK Address: - Ship Official Number: 145903 Ship Master's First Name: - Ship Master's Surname: RENNIE Ship Master's Title: CAPT Shipping line: CANADIAN PACIFIC City: LIVERPOOL Ship Destination Port: MONTREAL Ship Destination Country: CANADA
With her is..
Frank Herbert (Obviously should be Norbert) Biddle...20 (Farming) Eileen Lois Biddle...16 (Domestic)
Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960 Transcription First Name: FRANK Last Name: BIDDLE Title: - Age Transcribed: 46 Year: 1923 Departure Month: 3 Departure Day: 23 Ship name: MONTCALM Ship Departure Port: LIVERPOOL Destination Port: SAINT JOHN NB State: - Country: CANADA Destination: SAINT JOHN NB Destination Place Country: CANADA Gender: Male Marital Status: - Occupation: GARDENER Year Of Birth: 1877 Birth Month: - Birth Day: - Country Of Birth: - Last Residence Country: - UK Address: - Ship Official Number: - Ship Master's First Name: - Ship Master's Surname: RENNIE Ship Master's Title: CAPT Shipping line: CANADIAN PACIFIC City: LIVERPOOL Ship Destination Port: SAINT JOHN NB Ship Destination Country: CANADA
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patchem
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5 Jan 2014 10:49 |
Any information on a certificate depends on who is giving the information and what 'truth' they have been told or whether they want to lie.
So if something is unknown they might not know, they might not want to say, or they have been given incorrect information.
So a death certificate is highly suspect - some of my children would struggle with my parents' names or my place of birth.
A census filled in by a husband depends on him being told the correct information by his wife - so could be suspect,
etc etc.
Could you post those Carroll censuses?
Thanks
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PricklyHolly
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5 Jan 2014 10:33 |
Welcome to the boards Thomas.
Household transcription 1911 census Person: BIDDLE, Beryl Evangeline Address: Headley Heath Kingsnorton
BIDDLE, Frank Head Married M 34 1877 Wood Working Machinist Warwickshire Bham BIDDLE, Evangeline Wife Married 11 years F 34 1877 Warwickshire Bham BIDDLE, Beryl Evangeline Daughter F 10 1901 School Staffs Wolverhampton BIDDLE, Frank Norbert Son M 8 1903 School Staffs Smethwick BIDDLE, Eileen Lois Daughter F 3 1908 Warwickshire Greet RG number: RG14 Piece: 17827 Reference: RG14PN17827 RG78PN1091 RD383 SD1 ED4 SN3 Registration District: Kings Norton Sub District: Kings Norton Enumeration District: 4 Parish: Kings Norton Address: Headley Heath Kingsnorton County: Worcestershire (3 children born and living)
Birmingham, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1937 about Francis Biddle (Bachelor) Cabinet Maker Gender: Male Birth Year: abt 1876 Marriage Date: 18 Sep 1899 Marriage Age: 23 Marriage Place: Deritend, St John The Baptist, Warwickshire, England Spouse: Evangeline Swingler (Spinster) Spouse Gender: Female Spouse Marriage Age: 23 Father: Joseph Frederick Biddle (Cabinet Maker) Spouse's Father: Elkanah Swingler (French Polisher) Witnesses: Frances Lancelot Admas and Alice Coomby. Reference Number: DRO 1 Archive Roll: 611
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Gee
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5 Jan 2014 10:22 |
None of these dates add up..............here is Tho's wife, arriving after her marriage to him!
Canada, Ocean Arrivals (Form 30A), 1919-1924
Name:Beryl Biddle
Gender:Female
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1902
Birth Place:Wolverhampton, England
Age:22
Date of Arrival:Nov 1924
Port of Arrival:Quebec
Port of Departure:London, England
Ship Name:Melita Father: Frank Biddle
Hang on, this looks like her
UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960
Name:Beryl Biddle
Gender:Female
Age:22
Birth Date:abt 1900
Departure Date:26 Oct 1922
Port of Departure:Southampton, England
Destination Port:Quebec, Canada
Ship Name:Melita
Search Ship Database:Search the 'Melita' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line:Canadian Pacific Railway
Official Number:136367
Master:Captain G Hamilton
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Gee
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5 Jan 2014 10:05 |
Is this your father with his mother?
1921 Census of Canada
Name:Thomas Head
Gender:Male
Marital Status:Widowed
Age:32
Birth Year:abt 1889
Birth Place:England
Relation to Head of House:Head
Father Birth Place:England
Mother's Name:Mary Head
Mother Birth Place:England
Year of Immigration:1907
Racial or Tribal Origin:English
Province or Territory:Ontario
District:Northumberland
District Number:107
Sub-District:Hamilton (Township)
Sub-District Number:23
City, Town or Village:Hamilton Township
Street or Township:Hamilton Tp
Municipality:Hamilton
Occupation:Laborer
Name
Thomas Head 32 Mary Head 62
On the above census he is listed as a widow but the marriage is after that date! Maybe he married before?
Ontario, Canada, Marriages, 1801-1928
Name:Thomas Richard Head
Birth Place:England
Age:34
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1889
Father Name:Thos Head
Mother Name:Mary Carroll
Spouse Name:Beryl Biddle
Spouse's Age:23
Spouse Birth Year:abt 1900
Spouse Birth Place:England
Spouse Father Name:Frank Biddle
Spouse Mother Name:Evevgslin Swingter
Marriage Date:12 May 1923
Marriage County or District:Northumberland
Registration District:Northumberland
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Flip
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5 Jan 2014 09:39 |
Her arrival in Canada, but I can't see Mary on the list:
Ada Head Gender: Female Age: 14 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893 Date of Arrival: 13 May 1907 Vessel: Kensington Search Ship Database: View the 'Kensington' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database Port of Arrival: Montreal, Quebec Port of Departure: Liverpool, England Roll: T-489
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Flip
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5 Jan 2014 09:38 |
Travelling with Ada is Mary - which would tie in with the death cert and the 1921 census where Mary is with son Thomas:
Ada Head Gender: Female Age: 17 Birth Date: abt 1890 Departure Date: 5 Feb 1907 Port of Departure: Liverpool, England Destination Port: Quebec, Canada Ship Name: Kensington Search Ship Database: Search the 'Kensington' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database Master: W Roberts
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Gee
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5 Jan 2014 09:33 |
Is this the daughter that is mentioned on Mary's death cert
Ontario, Canada, Marriages, 1801-1928
Name:Ada Mary Head
Father Name:Deceaded Mary Head
Mother Name:Phillips Head
Spouse Name:John Sanderson
Spouse's Age:30
Spouse Birth Year:abt 1877
Spouse Father Name:James Sanderson
Spouse Mother Name:Mary Davies
Marriage Date:16 Jul 1909
Marriage County or District:York
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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5 Jan 2014 09:30 |
This look like Ada ,s birth
Civil Registration event: Birth
Print Close Name: HEAD, Ada Mary Registration district: Greenwich County: London Year of registration: 1892 Quarter of registration: Jul-Aug-Sep Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3 Volume no: 1D Page nos 1122
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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5 Jan 2014 09:21 |
Is this her going to Canada ?
Britain: outbound passenger lists leaving UK 1890-1960 - person transcript
Print Close Name: Mrs Mary HEAD Date of departure: 10 October 1919 Port of departure: Avonmouth Destination port: Montreal Destination country: Canada Date of Birth: 1860 (calculated from age) Age: 59 Marital Status: Sex: Female Occupation: Notes: Passenger recorded on: Page 7 of 15 Ship: PRETORIAN Official Number: 113969 Master's name: J Hall Steamship Line: Canadian Pacific Railway Atlantic Steamship Line Where bound: Quebec, Canada Square feet: 5750 Registered tonnage: 4842.58 Passengers on voyage: 441
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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5 Jan 2014 09:18 |
1901 census
Name: Mary Head Age: 40 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861 Relation to Head: Wife Gender: Female Spouse: Thomas Head Birth Place: Dartford, Kent, England Civil Parish: Dartford Town: Dartford County/Island: Kent Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View Image Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Thomas Head 36 Mary Head 40 Thomas Head 12 Ada Head 8
So she is consistently born. c1861 Dartford
Not picking her up as Carroll on any census
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Gee
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5 Jan 2014 09:13 |
On the death certificate it also gives the informant as Ada Sanderson - daughter
Ontario, Canada, Deaths, 1869-1938 and Deaths Overseas, 1939-1947
Name:Mary Head[Mary Phillips]
Death Date:26 Oct 1937
Death County or District:York
Death State:Ontario
Death Country:Canada
Age:76 <<DOB Jan 15th 1861
Gender:Female
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1861
Birth Location:England
Father:Phillips
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