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I have two Jonathan Ramsbottoms born in the Oswaldtwistle area but having trouble separating them one was born abt 1788 and the other 1805 one was married to a Alice Crabtree the other married a Emma Norris. Need to separate them and put them with their correct wives, parents and children. Help would be appreciated.

You should be working BACK..............presumably, a child of one of the unions is your line..........which one?

How have you got back to these two? There seem to be quite a few Jonathan Ramsbottoms born in the same area and same time frame.

The one who married Alice Crabtree seems to have remarried to an Elizabeth.

Where have you looked?

This is from LancsOPC...............a site you should have in your favourites if you are researching relatives in the County

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/

Marriage: 15 Apr 1816 St James, Church Kirk, Lancashire, England
Jonathan Ramsbottom - Church Kirk
Alice Crabtree - (X), Church Kirk
Witness: Charles Ramsbottom; Samuel Crabtree
Married by Banns by: Jno. Swainson Minister
Register: Marriages 1813 - 1830, Page 54, Entry 161
Source: LDS Film 1470822

Is your info accurate??

Marriage: 6 Sep 1829 St James, Church Kirk, Lancashire, England
Jonathan Ramsbottom - (X), Bachelor, Church Kirk
Esther Norris - (X), Spinster, Church Kirk
Witness: George Ramsbottom, (X); John Sleddon
Married by Banns by: Stephen Birkett, Minister
Register: Marriages 1813 - 1830, Page 283, Entry 847
Source: LDS Film 1470822

Use LancsOPC to look for possible children's baptisms..............

There are several for children of the first marriage............and two for the second

I will not spoil your pleasure by posting any of them here.

I'll let you find them..................and get the 'buzz', and the chance to familiarise yourself with searching for info on the site.

" one was born abt 1788 and the other 1805 "

... could they be father and son ?

As Reggie has posted, the marriage to Alice Crabtree was in 1816 - so cannot be the one born 1805 as he would only have been 11!

Lancs opc has the parents of the 1805 Jonathan as Henry & Mary.

1841 census


Person: RAMSBOTTOM, Jonathan Address: Turton Street, Bolton, Bolton, Little

RAMSBOTTOM, Jonathan M 35 1806 VIEW
RAMSBOTTOM, Esther F 30 1811 VIEW
RAMSBOTTOM, Henry M 9 1832 Lancashire VIEW
RAMSBOTTOM, Mary F 7 1834 Lancashire VIEW
RAMSBOTTOM, Hannah F 5 1836 Lancashire VIEW
CALLON, Betty F 65 1776 Lancashire VIEW
ROSCOE, Philis F 18 1823 Lancashire

MIke*

Having taken the precaution of finding the marriages.....the answer is probably NO

Baptism: 5 Feb 1788 St James, Church Kirk, Lancashire, England
Jonathan Ramsbotham - Son of Jn.? Ramsbotham & Molly
Abode: Top


Baptism: 16 May 1790 St Stephen, Tockholes, Lancashire, England
Jonathan Ramsbottom - Son of James Ramsbottom & Grace
Born: 17 Apr 1790
Abode: Withnell


Baptism: 17 Mar 1805 St James, Church Kirk, Lancashire, England
Jonnathan Ramsbotham - Son of Henry Ramsbotham & Mary
Born: 9 Feb 1805


Baptism: 11 Jul 1815 St Paul, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Jonathan Ramsbottom - Son of Charlotte Ramsbottom
Born: 12 Mar 1815
Abode: Blackburn


Those marriages could be for any of the above Jonathans

From someone's tree .....

Name:
Jonathan Ramsbottom

Birth: Abt 1797 - Lancashire, England
Death: Jun 1872 - Lancashire, England
Marriage: 15 April 1816 (15 Apr 1816) - Church, Lancashire, England
Parents: James Ramsbottom, Ann Dobson
Spouse: Allice Crabtree


Could the above Jonathan have married twice ?


Name:
Jonathan Ramsbottom

Birth: Abt 1797 - Lancashire, England
Death: Apr 1872 - Lancashire, England
Marriage: 24 Sep 1833 - Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Spouse: Elizabeth R Turner

The burial of the 1805 Jonathan?


Lancashire, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1986
Name:John Ramsbottom
Birth Year:abt 1804
Burial Age:71
Burial Date:16 Feb 1875
Burial Parish:Tockholes
Father:Henry Ramsbottom
Reference Number:Pr 3149/1/

Edit - ignore this death. The 1805 Jonathan appears to have remarried in 1876:


Manchester, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930
Name:Jonathan Ramsbottom - Coal dealer - same as occupation in 1871; widower
Birth Year:abt 1806
Age:70
Marriage Date:5 Mar 1876
Parish:Bolton le Moors, St Peter
Parish as it Appears:Bolton-le-Moors
Father's Name:Henry Ramsbottom - plumber
Spouse's Name:Emma Cottrell - widow
Spouse's Father's Name:William Cottrell
Reference Number:GB127.L243/1/4/50

Death of first wife Alice ?


Burial: 12 Dec 1830 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Alice Ramsbottom -
Age: 36 years
Abode: Tockholes
Buried by: J. Blackburne

Twins born to Jonathan and new wife Elizabeth


Baptism: 11 Mar 1835 St Stephen, Tockholes, Lancashire, England
Joseph Ramsbottom - Son of Jonathan Ramsbottom & Betty
Abode: Tockholes
Occupation: Weaver
Notes: [twins in the same entry]
Baptised by: G Robinson


Baptism: 11 Mar 1835 St Stephen, Tockholes, Lancashire, England
Richard Ramsbottom - Son of Jonathan Ramsbottom & Betty
Abode: Tockholes
Occupation: Weaver
Notes: [twins in the same entry]
Baptised by: G Robinson

Not sure about that death, Mike. On the 1861 Jonathan has a son, Cornelius, living with him and in the 1841 Cornelius is living with an Al(l)ice:


1861 England Census
Jonathan Ramsbottom

Age:64
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1797
Relation:Head
Spouse's Name:Elizabeth R Ramsbottom
Gender:Male
Where born:Oswaldtwistle, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish:Church
Ecclesiastical parish:Kirk

Jonathan Ramsbottom 64
Elizabeth R Ramsbottom 55
Cornelius Ramsbottom 28


1841 England Census
Cornelious Ramsbottom
[Cornelius Ramsbottom]

Age:8
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1833
Civil Parish:Whalley
Hundred:Blackburn (Higher Division)
County/Island:Lancashire
Allice Ramsbottom 40
Bibiama Ramsbottom 20
Emelia Ramsbottom 18
Edward Ramsbottom 15
Metilden Ramsbottom 13
Alfrad Ramsbottom 10
Cornelious Ramsbottom 8
Rosalia Ramsbottom

Lancs opc has 13 baptisms for children of Jonathan and Alice, (some giving her as formerly Crabtree) plus the baptism for Cornelius which gives the mother as Grace (Formerly Crabtree). Possibly a mistrancscription?