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william
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30 Dec 2013 13:47 |
Born Emma Scott 1832, married William Moore 30/09/1849 (Unable to find any record of a divorce between 1850 & 1853) The 1851 Ancestry .co.uk Census shows Emma Moore aged 20 as a lodger at 12, Pierrepont St. Nottingham, also at the same address was a Henry Savage Born 1825 also a lodger. The 1861 Genes reunited Census shows Henry Savage 36 as head (Cordwainer) and Emma Savage as Wife (Seamstress), living at 16, Commerce St, St Marys, Nottingham. The family cosists of four children: Eliza 10 (1851), Henry 5 (1856), James 3 (1858) and Alfred 0 (1861). The 1871 Ancestry.co.uk Census shows Emma Savage 39 as head of the family, with Henry 15, James 13, and Alfred 8. No record here of Husband Henry or Daughter Eliza. 1871 Ancestry .co.uk Census shows Eliza Savage as a visitor at address in Lowdham, Nottingham, with a George and Fanny Wood family, plus seven other visitors. The same 1871 Census shows Henry Savage 54 as being a Patient at "Middlesex Lunatic Asylum", Marital Status : Widow, Occupation: Shoemaker.
After the 1871 Census I am unable to find what happened to Emma, where she lived, did she remarry, when did she Die? Any help would fill gaps in my research. Many thanks,regards William
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patchem
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30 Dec 2013 13:51 |
Welcome to the boards, William.
Just as a point, unlikely that a divorce would have happened. Either death or bigamy.
Have you applied for any marriage or birth certificates?
Have you managed to sort out all her children in censuses after 1871?
Who is your direct ancestor?
Thanks
Added; Do you mean 1871 or 1881 for some of your information?
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GlitterBaby
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30 Dec 2013 13:52 |
I doubt there was a divorce. Couples just parted and went and lived with their new partner
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patchem
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30 Dec 2013 13:56 |
Henry Savage is a widower in the 1881 census, so she should have died before that date.
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+++DetEcTive+++
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30 Dec 2013 13:58 |
According to this link, the National Archive don't have divorce records before 1858.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/divorce.htm
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ErikaH
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30 Dec 2013 14:01 |
Where have you looked?
Have you used freebmd?
How do you know that the woman living as Henry Savage's wife was the one born as Scott......do you have birth certs of children to prove that it's the same woman?
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patchem
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30 Dec 2013 14:06 |
Emma Savage (Savidge) claims to be widowed in 1871, so a slight mis-communication between them.
If Alfred was 0 in 1861 and 8 in 1871, then probably the first child died?
Births Sep 1860 SAVAGE Alfred Nottingham 7b 212 Births Dec 1862 SAVAGE Alfred Nottingham 7b 222
? Deaths Sep 1861 Savage Alfred Nottingham 7b 127
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patchem
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30 Dec 2013 14:10 |
This seems to 'confirm' the Scott/Savage connection. 1911 England Census Alfred Scott Savage Age in 1911: 48 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Male Birth Place: Nottinghamshire, England Civil Parish: Derby County/Island: Derbyshire Country: England Street Address: 20 Walpole Street Derby Marital Status: Married Occupation: Lace Masker Registration District: Derby Registration District Number: 435 Sub-registration District: Derby ED, institution, or vessel: 57 Piece: 20928 Alfred Scott Savage 48 Elizabeth Scott Savage 46 Alfred Scott Savage 12 Ernest Scott Savage 3 Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 20928.
Added: ? Alfred S Savage Birth Date: abt 1863 Date of Registration: Jun 1925 Age at Death: 62 Registration District: Derby Inferred County: Derbyshire Volume: 7b Page: 576
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Catherine
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30 Dec 2013 14:49 |
Are you sure Henry was in the Aslyum in 1871?
................there's also this one you may like to consider:-
1871 England Census about Henry Savage Name: Henry Savage Age: 46 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825 [1825] Relation: Convict Inmate (Prisoner) Gender: Male Where born: Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England Civil Parish: Lidford County/Island: Devon Country: England Registration District: Tavistock Sub-registration District: Buckland Monachorum ED, institution, or vessel: Darmorr Convict Prison Household Schedule Number: 1 Piece: 2144 Folio: 80 Page Number: 38 ...............................................
England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892 about Henry Savage Name: Henry Savage Date of Trial: 19 Jul 1869 Trial Year: 1869 Location of Trial: Nottinghamshire, England Sentence: Imprisonment Crime: Larceny Date of Execution or Release: Penal Servitude: 5yrs
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Catherine
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30 Dec 2013 14:52 |
Looks as though above Henry Savage, came out of prison and went straight back in :-
England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892 about Henry Savage Name: Henry Savage Date of Trial: 17 Jul 1874 Trial Year: 1874 Location of Trial: Nottinghamshire, England Sentence: Imprisonment Crime: Receiving stolen goods, before convicted of larceny Date of Execution or Release: Penal Servitude:- 7 Years Term of Police Supervision:- 5 Years
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Catherine
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30 Dec 2013 14:57 |
.............and again:-
England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892 about Henry Savage Name: Henry Savage Date of Trial: 31 Jan 1889 Trial Year: 1889 Location of Trial: Nottinghamshire, England Sentence: Imprisonment Crime: Breaking and entering a dwelling house and stealing therein. Prior conviction proved. Date of Execution or Release: Penal Servitude:- 6 ? mths hard labour Term of Police Supersision:- 1 Year
..............maybe Emma left him because of his criminal ways?????
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MarieCeleste
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30 Dec 2013 14:59 |
This newspaper article ties in with those records above:
Publication:Nottinghamshire Guardian Publication date:Friday 23 April 1869
Article text: "William Morley, hay-cutter, William Powell, porter, James Gadsby, publican, and Henry Savage, cordwainer, were brought up charged with stealing 100lbs. weight of Italian silk, the property of Mr. William Elliott"
Those names are on the same page of the court register posted above.
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patchem
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30 Dec 2013 15:01 |
Presumably William believes that it is the correct Henry in 1881 as he is a shoemaker: Henry Savage Age: 54 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827 Relationship to Head: Patient Gender: Male Civil Parish: Norwood County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street Address: "Middlesex Lunatic Asylum" Marital Status: Widow Occupation: Shoemaker Registration District: Uxbridge Sub-registration District: Hayes ED, institution, or vessel: Middlesex Lunatic Asylum
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Catherine
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30 Dec 2013 16:29 |
So the Henry Savage aged 54yrs that was in the Asylum, that William found, was not on the 1871 census but the 1881 census. So could be the same one that I found in the 1871 census where he was in prison.
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From a tree on ancestry:-
Death 1894 18 Jul Age: 69 Lunatic Asylum, Norwood, Workhouse.London Had been transferred to a Lunatic Asylum Bethnal Green. Died from Pneumonia,and was buried in a Paupers grave,
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MarieCeleste
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30 Dec 2013 16:37 |
That was my take on it too Catherine.
I see William has marked answers as completed .....
Hi William - we're always interested to know what people's thoughts are on the information found, just use the add reply box below. :-)
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Catherine
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30 Dec 2013 16:57 |
According to the same family tree this would be William Moore in 1861:-
1861 England Census about William Moore Name: William Moore Age: 32 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary Moore Gender: Male Where born: Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England Civil Parish: Newark on Trent Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary County/Island: Nottinghamshire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation: Dyer
Registration District: Newark Sub-registration District: Newark ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Neighbors: View others on page Household Schedule Number: 144 Piece: 2479 Folio: 86 Page Number: 21 Household Members: Name Age William Moore 32 Mary Moore 27 Sarah A Moore 4 Robert Moore 2
....... now living, as man and wife, with Mary (Thorpe)
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william
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30 Jan 2014 15:39 |
Many thanks for all the information by so many helpers. Sorry about the delay in replying but age takes its toll on illness. The information received has helped me to fill in many slots in my research. Thanks to all who have replied Best wishes, Regards William
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