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Good point Amanda. But also worth bearing in mind that sometimes banns were read but they never went through with the marriage (I've just found one of those last week).

Hi Brian,

A good way of searching for a Marriage in this period that missed the index is to look for the Banns, unless it was a Marriage by Licence.

If the Banns were read there might be a chance the Marriage is one of the missing ones in the GRO.

I came across one earlier this year by doing this.

Kind regards
Amanda

That's the way it seems Brian. Still don't see her in 1851 as she is listed with her family.

No sign of a marriage though unless it has been missed from the index?

Perhaps they just never got round to marrying.

I think I am making progress.
Sarah Harriet Wise was born in Broughton, near Stockbridge in 1841.
In 1861 she is aged 20 in Millbrook with parents William H and Sarah Wise plus six younger sblings.
Does that tally?
Still no sign of her marriage to Mr Viney, though.

Always possible Reggie. In this instance though she seems to be with only one husband from the 18441 census through to the 1891.

Exactly...a probable assumption - which is the point I was trying to get across.

The mother in law could possibly have been married more than one..........

Presumably an assumption from the 1891 census where mother-in-law Sarah Wise is living with Thomas and Sarah.

Tracing that Sarah back through the census, it looks like Sarah that was with Thomas may have been unsure of her year of birth?


1841

Name: Sarah Wise
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Female
Where born: Hampshire, England

Civil Parish: Broughton
Hundred: Thorngate (Lower Half)
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street Address: Crown Farm


Registration District: Stockbridge
Sub-registration District: Broughton
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 399
Book: 25
Folio: 1
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
William Wise 25 Farmer
Sarah Wise 25
Sarah Wise 2 Mo


That Sarah doesn't seem to be with her parents in 1851

1851

Name: Sarah Wise
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William H Wise
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Gosport, Hampshire, England

Civil Parish: Houghton Drayton
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image

Registration District: Stockbridge
Sub-registration District: Broughton
ED, institution, or vessel: 4c and 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 37
Piece: 1672
Folio: 208
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
William H Wise 36
Sarah Wise 35
Allen E Wise 9
Frances M Wise 6
William H Wise 1
Mary A Wise 7 Mo

????
Marriages Dec 1839
BROWNING Mary Ann Romsey &c. 7 265
COWARD Sarah Romsey &c. 7 265 <<<<<<<<<<<<
Luke Unity Romsey &c. 7 265
Mason Charles Romsey &c. 7 265
Osman James Romsey &c. 7 265
WISE William Henry Romsey &c. 7 265 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<

????
Births Jun 1841
Wise Sarah Harriet Stockbridge 7 191
Wise Sarah Harriett Stockbridge 7 191

You still haven't said how your friend knows Sarah's maiden name.............

That would agree to the 1851 census:
James 59
Ann 40
Mary 8
Jane 6
Martha 3
Thomas 1 (being James Thomas born 1850)

Could this be him?

James Thomas Viney, "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"
Name: James Thomas Viney
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 31 Mar 1850
Christening Place: Millbrook, Hampshire, England

Father's Name: James Viney
Mother's Name: Anne

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I04091-5
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1596325
Reference ID: 13

Sorry, my mistake. It is JAMES, not Joseph.
Very many apologies. Getting old and tired!
He also was known as Thomas.

The death referred to appears also to be JAMES not Joseph:

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: James T Viney
Birth Date: abt 1847
Date of Registration: Dec 1922
Age at Death: 75
Registration District: Southampton
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume: 2c
Page: 63

That seems to be the family.
It seems that they named their daughter, born 1878, with the same names as her mother.

Here's William's baptism:

William Henry Viney, "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"

Name: William Henry Viney
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 17 Dec 1876
Christening Place: Millbrook, Hampshire, England

Father's Name: James Thomas Viney
Mother's Name: Sarah Harriet Viney

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I04091-8
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1596325
Reference ID: Item 1 p 129

From https://familysearch.org/

The children's baptisms on FamilySearch give the father's name as JAMES Thomas Viney, not Joseph.

Finding a birth record that *might* fit could be an incorrect assumption given that there were no penalties for not registering births.

EDIT

For example, here's Frank's baptism

Frank Viney, "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"
Name: Frank Viney
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 20 Jul 1884
Christening Place: Millbrook, Hampshire, England

Father's Name: James Thomas Viney <<<<
Mother's Name: Sarah Harriet

Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I02020-7
System Origin: England-EASy
GS Film number: 1041742
Reference ID: 195

As there were no penalties until 1875 for not registering births, the odds are that this man's wasn't

Doesn't your friend have any certs?

And could you answer the question about his/her source for Sarah's maiden name?

Isn't Sarah Harriet's father Thomas??

1901 England Census
about Hettie Viney Name: Hettie Viney
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: Thomas Viney
Mother: Sarah Viney
Birth Place: Southampton, Hampshire, England
Civil Parish: Shirley
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Viney 52 (Market Gardener)
Sarah Viney 54
Doltciena Viney 24
William Viney 22
Hettie Viney 20 <<<<<<<
Mabel Viney 18
Frank Viney 19
George Litman 39 (Boarder)

1881 census

Person: VINEY, George Address: Washing Compy Stables, Mousehole Lane, Millbrook

VINEY, Thomas Head Married M 29 1852 Market Gardener
Coxford, Hampshire VIEW
VINEY, Sarah Wife Married F 36 1845
Bently, Hampshire VIEW
VINEY, George Son Single M 10 1871 Scholar
Northam, Hampshire VIEW
VINEY, Ellen Daughter Single F 8 1873 Scholar
Southton, Hampshire VIEW
VINEY, Dottema Daughter Single F 6 1875 Scholar
Shirley, Hampshire VIEW
VINEY, William Son Single M 4 1877 Scholar
Millbrook, Hampshire VIEW
VINEY, Sarah Daughter Single F 2 1879
Millbrook, Hampshire

1871 census

Person: VINEY, George Address: Church Street, St Mary, Southampton

VINEY, Thomas Head M 23 1848 Hampshire VIEW
VINEY, Harriett Wife F 25 1846 Hampshire VIEW
VINEY, George Son M 0 1871 Hampshire

1911 census

Thomas Viney 63 Market Gardner
Sarah Viney 66
D Viney 34


No places of birth. Says married 40 years.
7 children, all living

Andy