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Kathleen
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9 Dec 2013 16:23 |
Could someone help me to find the birth/baptism of George Hawkins believed to be in Bristol between 1819 and 1823. On his marriage cert his Father's name is given as Joseph and possible occ. either Tailor or Sailor, I'm trying to find this info for my cousin in Oz and apparently it's a bit difficult to read. Can't find him on the 41 UK census and know he married in Australia in 1847. His Mother's name is possibly Caroline so any info on his parents would be very helpful.
Many thanks Kath
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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9 Dec 2013 16:31 |
Try Family Search site :-)
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JoonieCloonie
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9 Dec 2013 16:34 |
I have an ancestor born in Somerset in that exact time frame and his baptism appears at familysearch.org. However there is no baptism showing there for a George Hawkins in Bristol or a George with either of those parents, unfortunately ... or a marriage for a Joseph and Caroline ...
Here is a Caroline Hawkins of the right age in the right place in the 1841 census
Civil Parish: St Augustine The Less County/Island: Gloucestershire Registration District: Bristol
James Hawkins 40 Caroline Hawkins 40 Elizabeth Hawkins 15 Ann Hawkins 11 James Hawkins 9 Matilda Hawkins 5 John Hawkins 2
James is a shipwright and both parents were born out of country.
That could be a reasonable match for 'sailor' (possibly at an earlier date) so might be worth considering.
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Gee
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9 Dec 2013 16:35 |
Is this the marriage that you refer to?
Australia Marriage Index, 1788-1950
Name:George Hawkins
Spouse Name:Caroline May
Marriage Date:1847
Marriage Place:New South Wales
Registration Place:Geelong, New South Wales
Registration Year:1847
Volume Number:V C
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Thelma
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9 Dec 2013 16:35 |
?????????????? George Hawkins England, Bristol Parish Registers, 1538-1900 christening: 17 June 1821 Hanham Abbots, St George, Gloucestershire, England residence: 17 June 1821 Gloucestershire, Hanham Abbots, St George father: Joseph Hawkins mother: Hester Hawkins
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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9 Dec 2013 16:42 |
.?
Name: Joseph Hawkins Age: 50 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791 Gender: Male Where born: Gloucestershire, England Civil Parish: Prestbury Hundred: Deerhurst (Lower Division) County/Island: Gloucestershire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
View Image Registration District: Cheltenham Sub-registration District: Charlton Kings Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 354 Book: 26 Folio: 23 Page Number: 17 Household Members: Name Age Joseph Hawkins 50 Hester Hawkins 45 Joseph Hawkins 20 George Hawkins 15 Emma Hawkins 14 Nathaniel Hawkins 12 Martha Hawkins 9 Elizabeth Hawkins 6 William Hawkins 4
Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 354; Book: 26; Civil Parish: Prestbury; County: Gloucestershire; Enumeration District: 23; Folio: 23; Page: 17; Line: 5; GSU roll: 288768.
Joseph though is an Ag Lab
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Kathleen
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9 Dec 2013 16:49 |
Thanks everyone for the suggestions for George Hawkins, will pass it on.
Yes Gins that is the marriage he has for George, do you have any other info on him?
Thanks again Kath
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JoonieCloonie
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9 Dec 2013 16:56 |
I looked for his death at NSW search site but there are quite a few ... any idea of when/where? also could not see any births to George and Caroline in NSW.
Just to play with my James and Caroline couple a little more ... in 1851 she has become Matilda but appears to be the same person, and both parents were born in Devon. If they turned out to be the couple it's possible George was born in Devon.
I wonder though whether since George's wife was Caroline the idea of a mother Caroline wasn't a bit of a red herring.
If George himself was a seafarer he might have been on vessels in the 1841 census and not got enumerated.
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JoonieCloonie
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9 Dec 2013 17:07 |
deaths of children?
3809/1860 HAWKINS GEORGE father GEORGE mother CAROLINE GOULBURN
10724/1936 HAWKINS CAROLINE father GEORGE (no mother named) 84 YRS FAIRFIELD (c1852) LIVERPOOL
just wondering whether parents' names were stated on George's own death certificate, in case someone knew them.
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Kathleen
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9 Dec 2013 17:07 |
I'll have to ask my cousin if he knows where he died, I understand that he did marry twice so Matilda could be his second wife. I'll scan your answer and send it on to him and see what he thinks.
Many thanks Kath
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Gee
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9 Dec 2013 17:08 |
I was wondering about this birth, for the couple?
Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922
Name:Joseph Hawkins
Father's Name:George Hawkins
Mother's Name:Caroline Hawkins
Birth Place:Mount William, Victoria
Registration Year:1850
Registration Place:Victoria
Registration number:8894
Joseph might have named after his grandfather?
You might know different. As Joonie asks, do you have any idea of his death?
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Chris Ho :)
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9 Dec 2013 17:12 |
http://www.curiousfox.com/vill100/Gloucestershire15801_3.html
(above has below old query)
Looking for information on George Hawkins b. 1822 Bristol parents Joseph (occ. sailor) and Caroline. Emigrated to Australia and married Margaret Sheehy in Jan 1857 Ballarat Victoria. Was previously married and had 4 children by this marriage. Any info on the first marriage or George's parents appreciated.
Chris :)
edits
Name: George Hawkins Spouse Name: Margaret Sheehy Marriage Place: Victoria Registration Place: Victoria Registration Year: 1857 Registration number: 493
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=getHistIdxSearchCriteria
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JoonieCloonie
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9 Dec 2013 17:15 |
sorry Kath for being confusing, that Matilda was the wife of James Hawkins the shipwright, in 1851 in Bristol. In 1841 the mother is Caroline with a daughter Matilda, and in 1851 both mother and daughter are Matilda. Since the mother and father are both shown as born out of county in 1841 and as born in Devon in 1851, I would be fairly sure the mother is the same person.
This is the baptism of the child Matilda https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NLSW-7M4 and their other children are shown in that batch, but no George Hawkins in St Augustine with any parents https://familysearch.org/search/record/results#count=20&query=+batch_number:C01086-8
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Kathleen
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10 Dec 2013 16:44 |
Thanks everyone for your replies, will pass all the info on, some I don't think is connected to the George b abt 1819 but the birth of Joseph in 1850 looks right for possible child of his and the Curious Fox entry looks very interesting.
Many thanks again
Kath
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Kathleen
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10 Dec 2013 17:21 |
Joonie, Can you tell me where you got the name of Caroline Goulburn from?
Thanks Kath
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JoonieCloonie
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10 Dec 2013 17:30 |
Sorry again
3809/1860 HAWKINS GEORGE father GEORGE mother CAROLINE GOULBURN
Goulburn is the district where the death was registered.
The person was George Hawkins who died in 1860 in Goulburn NSW and whose parents were George and Caroline, so he would be a son of our George who died young it seems.
Births marriages and deaths in NSW are searchable here for free
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?event=births
(for births and deaths, and switch to Marriages)
and births and deaths can be searched by parents' names (if they were included in the info when registered, for deaths)
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Kathleen
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11 Dec 2013 17:39 |
Thank you very much Joonie, I'll check the web site out and also pass it on, it could be very helpful. My cousin seems to think he's chasing two different George Hawkins, which is always a problem but hopefully this site will help him sort them out.
Thank you for all your help. Regards Kath
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JoonieCloonie
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11 Dec 2013 20:37 |
We don't know where your cousin is getting info at present so it's a bit hard to make suggestions. Australian certificates are goldmines of info, as long as the person giving the info knew it.
For instance, a death cert should have the deceased's parents, spouse and children listed ... but if the person died in old age and the children didn't know the parents' names ...
Presumably your cousin is descended for 'a' George Hawkins? The question is how he gets back to his George -- what ancestor of his would be George's child. Is the George Hawkins and Caroline May marriage that Gins posted the right one? Does he have that certificate? Because it too should have the parents' names on it, and at that point George should have been expected to know who they were!
There were 6 George Hawkins marriages in NSW from that one to 1880 (he married again you said). But there were no births registered to that couple ... although those two deaths seem certainly their children.
Australian certificates are outrageously expensive. You can hire a transcription service that will give all the info on the certificate for half the price. Google 'Joy Murrin' to find one I have seen recommended at another site.
Oh there is why his death doesn't appear in NSW, if the message Chris Ho copied is from someone who knows, and the marriage there and of course the birth Gins posted: he shifted to Victoria. But odd that a child who looks like a child of him and Caroline died in NSW in 1860. The question would be whether the info on the two marriage certs matches up. Chris Ho gave you the link for searching at the Victoria site. It doesn't give the same info for free searches as NSW does. You have to pay $1 AUS to see a sheet of results and I'm not sure how much detail that gives (eg parents' names in deaths index). That site does show the Hawkins + Sheehy marriage. So the info on the two certificates could be compared.
A load of George Hawkinses died in Victoria. Three of them (at least 3 whose informants knew) had father Joseph ...
Anyhow the marriage certificates (transcripts) would be the place to start, to look for parent info. The real first place to start of course would be with the person in the tree thought to be George's child and look for their birth registration.
Also this is the direct link to the curiousfox message Chris Ho posted
http://www.curiousfox.com/uk/mbprof2.lasso?eid=111448&-nothing
and since it has the exact same info it would be worthwhile to see whether that person has found any more, but people do change their email addresses and become unreachable. It's very cheap to sign up at that site though so nothing ventured ... :-)
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Kathleen
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12 Dec 2013 18:18 |
Hi Joonie
Thanks for all your help, I'm passing all the info on to my cousin but he's preparing to move house this weekend so it could be after Christmas before he can digest it all and see if it ties in with what he has already, I know he's got a couple of marriage certs which aren't too clear in parts so if you don't mind I'll get in touch with you in a couple of weeks time.
Thanks again Kath
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