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JoonieCloonie
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2 Dec 2013 20:36 |
oh well it was me who was confused there ...
For contacting the child of Phyllis, that, I'm afraid we probably can't help with. I think that is almost certainly the right birth, but since the child was adopted that name will not help with finding the child unless the child themself is looking online somewhere I guess.
You can find the name by searching at
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
for births in the name Bean with mother's surname Bean, in 1955, and you will see the one around the right time ... for privacy I will not put the details here
but hold on, Ancestry had failed me in that search, ah because I was searching in Middlesex ... there is another birth in the same quarter of the same year that might very well be more likely, given the first name. I was originally thinking of the one with initial M but the initial S is the other possibility and I do not see a birth or death for that name either ... since both were born to single mothers possibly both were adopted ...
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JoonieCloonie
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2 Dec 2013 20:26 |
At Ancestry you can correct errors in the records there ... whether the information is incorrect on the original record, or Ancestry has mistranscribed it, etc. If you have a subscription for the records that is.
Earlier this year a user wrote
Charles Ernest Francom Bean rather than Charles Ernest Francis Bean Charles Ernest FRANCOM Bean is my grandfather, who migrated t South Africa inabout 1925.
if you have a subscription to Ancestry you can click on that user's name to send a message through the system. If you don't ... well, I was about to volunteer to pass on a message, but I checked and the user has a public tree at Ancestry, and you can find it at
http://www.mundia.com
which is a mirror of all Ancestry trees - but is free to sign up, search and send messages.
Do that and search for Florence Timpson 1884 and you will find she is in 8 trees.
The person who wrote the correction at Ancestry is the one whose tree at Mundia has only 23 people in it. You can't tell from the trees what anybody's own relationship with a particular person is since living people are not shown of course, but in that person's case we know from the note at Ancestry that the tree owner is the grandchild of Charles Ernest Francom Bean. Looking at the tree it is even possible that he was Phyllis's father.
So that's the easy way to make contact, although that person last signed in to Ancestry 9 months ago. But as long as they still have the same email address they will get messages that come from the Mundia system (it is actually the Ancestry system).
if any of that doesn't make sense, just shout :-D
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June
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2 Dec 2013 19:06 |
Wow....I am gob-smacked!! So Joonie-cloonie tell me how to contact this person who might be the daughter of Phyllis Bean......I would be happy to write to them. I am a bit confused as to the correction of a name on Ancestry????? Thanks, June
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JoonieCloonie
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2 Dec 2013 17:49 |
One can't help but be interested in such a sad situation, and well done those who worked it out.
The only Phyllis N/Nora Bean death in the records (none by name Patel) is this one
Name: Phyllis Norah Bean Birth Date: 10 Jun 1908 Date of Registration: Sep 1994 Age at Death: 86 Registration District: Bridport Inferred County: Dorset Register Number: 25B District and Subdistrict: 4281 Entry number: 89
perhaps the Phyllis in question was named for her?
that family in 1911 in Lewisham
Robert Fredrick Bean 31 Lucy Oram Bean 31 Phyllis Norah Bean 2 Georffrey John Whales Bean 0 Susan Hutchenson 48 May Law 17
someone does have that Phyllis in their tree at this website
There was a Bean-Bean child born in Dartford in the mid 1950s ... in fact within a very short time after the arrival given earlier in the thread ... and no marriage or death for that child ...... I just wondered whether the child might like to know something of her mother's time in England at least with someone who seemed to care for her, June's nan ...
the person who corrected the name of Charles Ernest Francom Bean in the 1911 at Ancestry earlier this year is his grandchild, and can be contacted through that website
so in any case, from the 1891 and 1901 censuses that person's great-gran Florence and your nan Doris were sisters :-)
by the way the address in Staines is now commercial, and Ancestry's phone number records for the address go back only to 1970 with someone listed there consistently up to 1981 who was not likely there in 1955. I wonder about electoral rolls?
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Dea
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2 Dec 2013 16:01 |
Typical South African Civil Actions of interest to genealogists would be the following:
Illiquid Case An Illiquid case is a case where there is no monetary claim or when the extent of the monetary claim is not pre-determined or easily calculable. Typically a divorce action would be an Illiquid Case. Where a husband sues for the Restitution of Gonjugal Rights - that would also be an Illiquid Case.
Dea x
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Flip
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2 Dec 2013 15:49 |
Very sad, expecially since that baby may have actually been her husband's - who she may have had to divorce because of the mixed marriages act, although who knows?
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June
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2 Dec 2013 15:42 |
I have been amazed at the info all of you have supplied!! The mystery of who/where this Phyllis came from looks now solved!! Phyllis came to stay with my Nan Doris Jeffrey 1952/1956 and was heavily pregnant by a coloured man. She went on to have the baby and it was adopted and in the end Phyllis committed suicide...sad ending. Up to now we didn't know which relative she was attached to, but now you have all solved that mystery.......Thank you so much. June Jarman
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Flip
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2 Dec 2013 15:41 |
Oh that would put a different light on the issue - the 1949 act prohibited whites from marrying non-whites, it was a criminal offence, and that certainly looks like a muslim name. May have been why she needed to get out of SA.
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MarieCeleste
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2 Dec 2013 15:20 |
Not sure whether they're connected but notice on the incoming passenger list that Dea posted Phyllis has a middle initial of "N"
Document 1 of 2 DEPOT TAB SOURCE TPD TYPE LEER VOLUME_NO 5/1117 SYSTEM 01 REFERENCE 926/1953 PART 1 DESCRIPTION ILLIQUID CASE. DIVORCE. PHYLLIS NORA PATEL (BORN BEAN) VERSUS CASSIM MOHAMED. STARTING 19530000 ENDING 19530000
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Flip
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2 Dec 2013 15:12 |
Looks like Frederick travelling out in advance of the family. Headed for Cape Town, he is a gunsmith - which matches the 1911 census.
Mr F C Bean Gender: Male Age: 34 Birth Date: abt 1886 Departure Date: 4 Jun 1920 Port of Departure: Southampton, England Destination Port: Cape Town, South Africa Ship Name: Balmoral Castle Search Ship Database: Search the 'Balmoral Castle' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database Shipping Line: The Union-Castle Mail Steamship Co, Ltd Official Number: 129074 Master: T J Bremner
He may have re-married after Florence died, as it looks like he died in 1965 using that link Maureen posted - left a surviving spouse Ivy.
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MaureeninNY
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2 Dec 2013 14:02 |
I have no experience using this database: http://www.national.archives.gov.za/index.htm
ClicK the link for Search National Automated Archival Information Retrieval System And then search on: RSA - All Archives Repositories and National Registers of non-public records
Document 3 of 5 DEPOT TAB SOURCE MHG TYPE LEER VOLUME_NO 0 SYSTEM 01 REFERENCE 6116/58 PART 1 DESCRIPTION BEAN, FLORENCE MARY. STARTING 19580000 ENDING 19580000 REMARKS SURVIVING SPOUSE FREDERICK CHARLES BEAN
Maureen
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Dea
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2 Dec 2013 13:54 |
I asked because I was looking at this incoming passenger record:
UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 about Phyllis N Bean Name: Phyllis N Bean Birth Date: abt 1928 Age: 26 Port of Departure: Durban, South Africa Arrival Date: 10 Dec 1954 Port of Arrival: Southampton, England Ports of Voyage: Durban [Port Elizabeth] [Cape Town] Ship Name: Stirling Castle Search Ship Database: View the 'Stirling Castle' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database Shipping Line: Union-Castle Mail Steamship Company Ltd Official Number: 164570
The address in Staines was where she was intending to stay.
There were other passengers called Bean travelling at the same time but they were all going to stay at "Ubena" Cottage, Grafthole, Nr. Torpoint, Cornwall so I don't think they were actually connected?
The others were Freda Aline aged 41 and her children John (15), Trevor (7) and Douglas (5).
Dea x
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MarieCeleste
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2 Dec 2013 13:51 |
Sorry June, South African records aren't any that I have access to (there may be someone else on here who knows more about them) - you could try adding South Africa to your title.
If you don't have access to Ancestry then you can register with their sister site Mundia (it's absolutely free) http://www.mundia.com/gb/. You can search and view public Ancestry trees on there and also contact the tree owners. Once you've registered then do a people search and when you find the relevant tree you can ask them the source of their information.
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June
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2 Dec 2013 13:49 |
Nan was Doris Ethel Jesse Jeffrey...nee Timpson Don't think she was living there but she might have been visiting. Not that the address rings any bells!! June
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Dea
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2 Dec 2013 13:44 |
Was your Nan by any chance living in Staines, Middlesex at that time? (73 Worple Ave., ?)
Dea x
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June
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2 Dec 2013 13:34 |
This is very interesting.......as in this family is a mystery about a girl called Phyllis who came to stay with my Nan in 1952/1956. She came from S. Africa because she was pregnant by a coloured man.....Florence was my Nan's sister. Can you look for details on the deaths in S. Africa for me? Thank you Marie Celeste.
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Flip
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2 Dec 2013 13:16 |
Think you've got the right list MC, there are children Arthur, Frederick, Joan and Kathleen all born with correct mmn.
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MarieCeleste
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2 Dec 2013 12:59 |
There is a tree on Ancestry has the following location for both her and her husband's death:
Johannesburg, Gauteng, South Africa
Might fit with this:
Britain: outbound passenger lists leaving UK 1890-1960 - person transcript
Name: Mast C BEAN Date of departure: 7 September 1921 Port of departure: London Destination port: Durban (Port Natal) Destination country: South Africa Date of Birth: 1910 (calculated from age) Age: 11 Marital Status: Sex: Male
Passenger recorded on: Page 1 of 14 The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: - Mast A BEAN Mast F BEAN Mrs F M BEAN <<< Miss J BEAN Miss K BEAN Ship: GUILDFORD CASTLE Official Number: 132611 Master's name: Capt A Knight Steamship Line: Union-Castle Mail S. S. Co. Ltd. Where bound: South Africa Square feet: 7625 Registered tonnage: 8063 Passengers on voyage: 424
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MarieCeleste
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2 Dec 2013 12:57 |
Looking at the image of the 1911 census, it was completed and signed by Frederick Charles Bean?
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MarieCeleste
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2 Dec 2013 12:54 |
Hi June, have you ruled this one out? The informant may not have given her middle name:
England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 Name: Florence Bean Birth Date: abt 1882 Date of Registration: Sep 1947 Age at Death: 65 Registration District: Surrey South eastern Inferred County: Surrey Volume: 5g Page: 509
When/where did her husband die?
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