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Do come back onto this thread when you get the cert and let us know the details.

Dea Xxx

You've been a star Dea. Thanks so much. Going to have a cuopa now and catch my breath. I never dreamt I would learn so much. Hopefully the cert will come quickly.

This looks a fair bet for 'our Fred' on 1891??

1891 census transcription details for: 12, Ty Isaf Road, Ystradyfodwg, Clydach
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 4425
Folio: 39
Page: 10
Reg. District: Pontypridd
Sub District: Ystradyfodwg
Parish: Ystradyfodwg
Enum. District: 21
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 12, Ty Isaf Road, Ystradyfodwg, Clydach
County: Glamorganshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
CARTER, William Head Married M 27 1864 Coal Miner
Long Sutton, Somersetshire
CARTER, Dora Mary Wife Married F 27 1864
Tintinhull, Somersetshire

**HAYNE, Frederick G Brother In Law Single M 21 1870 Coal Miner
Tintinhull, Somersetshire
RUSS, Absalom Lodger Single M 17 1874 Coal Miner
Tintinhull, Somersetshire

Dea x

EDIT - NO!! - You can forget this one - he was married to a Louisa on 1901 !!

Dea Xxx

That is a brilliant find Dea. I am noting all this down just in case. Mistaking the 12 children for 12 years of marriages I restricted myself to marriages within that operiod. No wonder I couldn't find anything. Thank you again so much.

She is still with family on 1891 but not on later census's :

1891 census transcription details for: 2, Cornish Court, Neath
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 4462
Folio: 161
Page: 13
Reg. District: Neath
Sub District: Neath
Parish: Neath
Enum. District: 24
Ecclesiastical District: Neath
City/Municipal Borough: Neath
Address: 2, Cornish Court, Neath
County: Glamorganshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
GOWMAN, John Head Married M 44 1847 Labourer In Shipyard
Neath, Glamorganshire
GOWMAN, Jane Wife Married F 44 1847
Neath, Glamorganshire
GOWMAN, Josiah Son M 15 1876
Neath, Glamorganshire
GOWMAN, Jane Daughter F 13 1878
Neath, Glamorganshire
GOWMAN, John Son M 7 1884
Neath, Glamorganshire
GOWMAN, Mary Daughter F 4 1887
Neath, Glamorganshire
GOWMAN, William Son Single M 22 1869 Coal Miner
Neath, Glamorganshire
GOWMAN, Ann Daughter Single F 20 1871 General Servant Domestic
Neath, Glamorganshire

Dea x

It would fit with this family:

1881 census transcription details for: 8, Savours Court, Neath
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 5341
Folio: 24
Page: 16
Reg. District: Neath
Sub District: Neath
Parish: Neath
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 8, Savours Court, Neath
County: Glamorganshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
GOWMAN, John Head Married M 35 1846 Laborer In Colliery
Northam, Devon
GOWMAN, Jane Wife Married F 35 1846 Laborers Wife
Neath, Glamorganshire, Wales
GOWMAN, Eliza Daughter Single F 13 1868 Scholar
Neath, Glamorganshire, Wales
GOWMAN, William Son Single M 11 1870 Scholar
Neath, Glamorganshire, Wales
***GOWMAN, Ann Daughter Single F 9 1872 Scholar
Llanelly, Carmarthenshire, Wales
GOWMAN, Thomas Son Single M 7 1874 Scholar
Neath, Glamorganshire, Wales
GOWMAN, Josiah Son Single M 4 1877 Scholar
Neath, Glamorganshire, Wales
GOWMAN, Jane Daughter Single F 1 1880 Laborers Daur
Neath, Glamorganshire, Wales

Dea x

I've just looked again....... you are quite right Dea - 12 children 6 alive 6 dead. Back to the drawing board. 12 children by the time you are 39/40, some going !!!

'Could' be this one???

Marriages Jun 1891 (>99%)
Gowman Ann Pontypridd 11a 645
Haynes Frederick Pontypridd 11a 645

I will see if it follows through.

Dea x

Just a point - the 1911 does NOT say how long they have been married - It just says they have had 12 children but 6 of them have died.

I will take a look............

Dea x

During the time it will take for the cert to come I thought I would track Elizabeth's parents back the generations just in case we have the correct people. However doing this is now problematic as Fred's place of birth varies from each of the two census returns - one in Somerset, one in Wales and also the spelling of his surname, neither of which is spelt the same as Elizabeths on her marr registation. So I now have the choice of Haynes, Haines, and Hynes !! Needless to say I am not doing very well. Never mind, I'll look for the marriage. 1911 said 12 years married 6 children born, 6 alive. 1911 minus 12 equals 1899-ish. Hey ho, married 12 years and a 20 year old daughter and a 15 year old son ??? Well we all know it happens ! Looked on freebmd and ancestry for the marriage of Fred(erick) Haynes to an Ann(ie) something - would you believe it, I can't find them !!! I am wondering if they actually bothered to marry at all. It would appear that this little family is going to be a real pain.

Dea

I think your right about her parents listing her on the census even though she is with her husband

There are no marriages after 1911 - 1940 in Glamorganshire for an E J Haynes

Gosh Dea I hadn't got the other 1911 up so didn't realise that. Thank you.And Shirley, I think you are right, my best plan now is to send for the cert to be absolutely sure.
Thank you everyone.

Your best bet is to get her marriage cert. that should name her father,if known

BUT - that Elizabeth from the 1901 is still at home with her family on the 1911 and does not appear to be married ???

Both census's posted above by Gins.

Dea x

EDIT - Having looked at the image she IS marked as married on the 1911 even though she is recorded under her maiden name.

They probably thought they had to include her even though she was not there at the time.

Dea x

Sorry folks, the one thing I failed to say that Elizabeth Jane Reeves nee Haynes gave her age as 21 on 1911 census so I was working on about 1889/90 for her year of birth.

Looking at the 1901 census above where she is aged 10, I though that was her but on the accompanying 1911 for the same family I see that Elzabeth is still at home........ mine isn't unfortunately, she is already married. . Thank you all for your efforts.

And this is the family I posted above



1911 Wales Census

Name:Ann Haines

Age in 1911:38

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1873

Relation to Head:Wife

Gender:Female

Birth Place:Llanelly, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish:Rhondda

County/Island:Glamorgan

Country:Wales

Street Address:14 River Row Treorci Rhondda

Marital Status:Married

Registration District:Pontypridd

Registration District Number:589

Sub-registration District:Rhondda

ED, institution, or vessel:12

Household Schedule Number:33

Piece:32340

Household Members:


Fred Haines 39
Ann Haines 38
Elizebeth J Haines 20
Fred Haines 15
Phillip Haines 10
Tommy Haines 8
Annie Haines 5
Willie Haines 2

?

Name: Elizabeth Jane Curtis
Birth Date: 7 Aug 1892
Date of Registration: Mar 1973
Age at Death: 80
Registration District: Pontypool
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 8c
Page: 1606

Was her hubby killed in WW1 !


Maybe
REEVES, THOMAS

Rank:
Private
Service No:
15729
Date of Death:
14/05/1915
Regiment/Service:
South Wales Borderers

2nd Bn.
Panel Reference
Panel 80 to 84 or 219 and 220.
Memorial
HELLES MEMORIAL
Additional Information:



Name: Elizabeth J Reeves
Spouse Surname: Curtis
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1918
Registration District: Pontypridd
Inferred County: Glamorgan
Volume Number: 11a
Page Number: 1049
Find Spouse: Wiliam J Curtis

Did you try to search using just forename and birth info?

You must always allow for mistranscription, errors by enumerators, and the fact that very few people knew how to spell their names.................etc

And the marriage cert would have her father's details (if known)

Did you look for a birth registration?

This one?



1901 Wales Census

Name:Elizabeth J Hynes

Age in 1901:10

Estimated Birth Year:abt 1891

Relation:Daughter

Father's Name:Fred Hynes

Mother's Name:Annie Hynes

Gender:Female

Where born:Neath, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish:Ystradyfodwg

Ecclesiastical parish:Cwmparc St George

County/Island:Glamorgan

Country:Wales


Registration District:Pontypridd

Sub-registration District:Ystradyfodwg

ED, institution, or vessel:9


Household Schedule Number:209

Piece:5013

Folio:24
Page Number:40

Household Members:


Fred Hynes 30
Annie Hynes 28
Elizabeth J Hynes 10
Fred Hynes 4
Philip J Hynes 4 Months
Henry Edwards 29


You need her birth and marriage certificate which is listed on FreeBMD, that should confirm her parents