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Thanks Batmansdaughter (ha) had not found those deaths, don't know why? Will take a look at those tomorrow, bit late for me now and pc is playing up. Signing off for now, thanks for your help :-D

Just to add there is an 1851 Census with Mary Simon, her mother Elizabeth Williams and 3 children, Thomas Priscilla and Edward. Mary states she is a widow! I want to prove the link to this family that thus Mary Simon (Williams) is the same as Mary Thomas, and thus mother of Richard Simon born in Everton Workhouse Liverpool. Have birth certificate for that birth, mother Mary Simon, no father.

Hi, have you checked all of these?


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Deaths Mar 1848 (>99%)
SIMON Thomas Holywell 27 238
Deaths Dec 1848 (>99%)
Simon Thomas Holywell 27 181
Deaths Sep 1849 (>99%)
Simon Thomas Holywell 27 190

Well thankyou so much for all your help. I have all the information mentioned, EXCEPT, for the baptism for Edward Simon, which is great, another confirmation that Mary Simon was married to Thomas Simon. I had after quite a long hunt found a marriage for them in the index. THE missing link to prove that the child Richard..also aka... Richard Thomas is the same person as my adult Richard Simon...is to prove that Mary'schild listed as Edwin on , think its 1861 census, is the same child listed previously as Edward previously....as in the baptism record. Have not been able to definitely prove that Edwsrd Simon and Edwin Simon are one and the same person. Oh actually there is another missing link. The death of Thomas Simon. It has been assumed that he was dead beforecRichard was born....thus.. no father could be identified. Couldn't find a death for him.

This seems to be the same family in 1871 that Reggie posted for 1861,




Name: Job Thomas
Age: 65
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Thomas
Gender: Male
Where born: Farndon, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Holt
Ecclesiastical parish: Holt
County/Island: Denbighshire
Country: Wales
Registration District: Wrexham
Sub-registration District: Holt
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Household Schedule Number: 23
Piece: 5651
Folio: 145
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Job Thomas 65
Mary Thomas 62 born Mold
Richard Thomas 14 born Mold ( Richard Simon in 1851?)

Edward to go with Reggies 1861 census

Forenames:Edward

Surname:Simon

Baptism Year:1848

Baptism Month:Feb

Baptism Day:08

Place:Mold

County:Flintshire

Birth Year:-

Birth Month:-

Birth Day:-

Fathers Forenames:Thomas

Mothers Forenames:Mary

Page:246

Record source:Flint baptisms - Transcripts

Data provider:Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

Transcriptions © brightsolid online publishing lt

there is this ????
Parish Records Collection baptism

Forenames:Richard

Surname:Simon

Baptism Year:1855

Baptism Month:Jul

Baptism Day:24

Place:Mold

County:Flintshire

Birth Year:-

Birth Month:-

Birth Day:-

Fathers Forenames:John

Mothers Forenames:Ann

Page:47

Record source:Flint baptisms - Transcripts

Data provider:Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

1861
SIMON, John Head Married M 36 1825 Coal Miner
Mold, Flintshire VIEW
SIMON, Ann Wife Married F 37 1824
London VIEW
SIMON, Thomas Son M 15 1846 Coal Miner
Mold, Flintshire VIEW
SIMON, Sarah Daughter F 13 1848
Mold, Flintshire VIEW
SIMON, Hugh Son M 11 1850 Scholar
Mold, Flintshire VIEW
SIMON, Richard Son M 5 1856 Scholar
Mold, Flintshire VIEW
WILLIAMS, John Visitor Married M 40 1821 Coal Miner
..., Flintshire VIEW
WILLIAMS, Jane Visitor Unmarried F 17 1844 Dairy Maid
Bilston, Staffordshire VIEW
WILLIAMS, Sophia Visitor F 13 1848 Scholar
Bilston, Staffordshire VIEW

Piece: 3749

Folio: 45

Page: 2

Registration District: Easington

Civil Parish: East Murton

Municipal Borough:

Address: 8, Surgery Row, East Murton, Seaham Harbour

County: Durham
refine search back to 1861 census search results

Transcriptions © brightsolid online publishing ltd

Thanks for the responses, I have most of the information mentioned. Yes I have a tree on Ancestry but there are others. Three of us have been trying to crack this one. From the census records he states his birth place as Mold, flintshire. The census with Job Thomas I have. The problem is if that is correct, Job Thomas is only his stepfather. On marriage certificates he ststed his father as Thomas. It is linking the adult with tge chikd that is proving difficult. Thus deciding which is the correct birth. A birth in Everton workhouse came out as most likely but there is still uncertainty.

1851 census

Person: SIMON, Edward Address: Garth, Gwysaney

WILLIAMS, Elizabeth Head Widow F 61 1790 Pauper (Agricultural Labourer Widow)
Mold, Flintshire VIEW
SIMON, Mary Daughter Widow F 36 1815 Pauper (Agricultural Labourer Widow)
Mold, Flintshire VIEW
SIMON, Thomas Son M 8 1843 At Home
Mold, Flintshire VIEW
SIMON, Priscilla Daughter F 6 1845 At Home
Mold, Flintshire VIEW
SIMON, Edward Son M 3 1848
Mold, Flintshire

For info ONLY

1881 census
Person: SIMONS, Richard Address: 1, Poplar Road, Wrexham Abbott

SIMONS, Richard Head Married M 24 1857 Labourer
Flintshire, Wales VIEW
SIMONS, Hannah Wife Married F 28 1853 Labourer Wife
Flintshire, Wales VIEW
SIMONS, Mary Hannah Daughter Single F 2 1879
Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales VIEW
JONES, Elizabeth Sister Single F 26 1855 Visitor
Flintshire, Wales VIEW

Deleted the marriage info I posted earlier........it was not relevant

Can't see a marriage for Job Thomas to a Mary which would 'fit'

1851 census

Person: THOMAS, Job Address:

GARNER, Jane Head Married F 64 1787 Agricultual Widow Of 102 Acres
Thornton, Cheshire VIEW
GARNER, Margaret Daughter Unmarried F 21 1830 Agricultual Daughter
Holt, Denbighshire VIEW
GARNER, Mary Ann Grand Daughter Unmarried F 9 1842 Agricultual Scholar
Wrexham, Denbighshire VIEW
HOUGHLAND, John Servant Unmarried M 39 1812 Agricultual Labourer
Farndon, Cheshire VIEW
THOMAS, Job Servant Unmarried M 32 1819 Agricultual Labourer
Farndon, Cheshire VIEW
PEMBERTON, James Servant Unmarried M 13 1838 Agricultual Labourer
Holt, Denbighshire VIEW
TAYLOR, Hannah Servant Unmarried F 18 1833 House Servt
Abenbury, Denbighshire

There's a tree on ancestry with certificates, covering his 2 marriages & the bigamous marriage. Claims he was born in Liverpool workhouse - again with certificate, and he died in 1895.

If it's not your tree, you can view it on the mundia.com site if you don't have ancestry sub.

Do you think this is him?

1861 census

Person: SIMON, Richard Address: Clays, Bieston


THOMAS, Job Head Married M 46 1815 Agricultural Labourer
Farndon, Cheshire VIEW
THOMAS, Mary Wife F 48 1813
Mold, Flintshire VIEW
SIMON, Edwin Son M 13 1848
Mold, Flintshire VIEW
SIMON, Richard Son M 4 1857
Liverpool, Lancashire

Is the info about his 'father' from one of the marriage certs?

What is the source of the birthplace info?

Differences can be attributed to place of upbringing being thought of as birthplace

This is my great grandfather. Have been unable to definitely determine where he was born and who his parents were. Anyone else have any information? His father was said to e Thomas Simon but there is question over this, father may be unknown. He stated he was born in Mold but there is doubt over this too. I have possible mother as Mary Williams, again this is unsure. He was married twice (plus one bigamous) to Hannah Jones and to Annie Elizabeth Gaskin.