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rootgatherer
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7 Nov 2013 22:18 |
Great stuff Guy! So William was indeed deceased by the time his father's probate was sorted.
So many Mayers and so many Colliers in the same area!!
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Guy
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7 Nov 2013 21:10 |
Sorry. The William Mayers aged 16 who died in Neath Higher died on 30th JUne1865.
Guy
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Guy
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7 Nov 2013 21:08 |
Death cert shows - William Mayers did indeed die aged 16 of epilepsy in Neath Higher, that he was son of a deceased coal miner John Mayers - as reported by Elizabeth Bowen (his grandmother on maternal side) who was present at death though unable to write. As Chris points out a John Mayers married a Louise Powell 25 FEb 1850 at Lanwenarth just outside Abergavenny north east of River Usk. The groom was the son of yet another William Mayers* a Collier and Louise the gaughter of Richard Powell, a - guess what -collier! * Presumably born around 1825 - where??????, what parenthood???? Guy
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rootgatherer
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31 Oct 2013 20:59 |
Clara Jane is working as a servant in 1871
Name: Clara Jane Webb Age: 16 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Llanover U, Monmouthshire, Wales Civil Parish: Llanover Upper Ecclesiastical parish: Blaenavon Town: Blaenavon County/Island: Monmouthshire Country: Wales Registration District: Abergavenny Sub-registration District: Blaenavon ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Household Schedule Number: 50 Piece: 5313 Folio: 8 Page Number: 9 Household Members: Name Age John Jordan 32 Ann Jane Jordan 25 John Wm Jordan 4 Clara Jane Webb 16
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Guy
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31 Oct 2013 20:06 |
I'm getting slightly confused! IF "my" William Mayers brother of John Bowen Mayers died aged 15 in Neath - death cert awaited - then which William aged 21 married Mary Price in 1871 and was that the same William as shows in 1891 census living in King Str, Llanover with wife Mary plus 5 children?
Thanks to Rootgatherer and Chris Ho we seem to have quite a lot on the 1871 Census John & Lucy Mayers then of 68 High Str Llanover, Blaenavon - births of William Apr-Jun 1852; John Jul-Sep1854; a Clara-Jane in 1857 (since she doesn't appear in the 1871 census maybe she died) plus an Eliazer born jul-Sep1859 but she must also have died since in 1871 there's a 1 yr old of the same name.
Would that 1871 John Mayers be the same as the 15 yr old Collier born 1826 living at Long Row, Pwlldee in Parish of Llanwenarth Ultra in 1841 under the name Maier? together with William a collier aged 40 plus wife Jane aged 30 and a younger brother William born 1829 and a sister Elizabeth born 1831. But I am unable to find any subsequent references for them under surname variants.
If that 1841 family are connected then where did William Maier come from - born around 1801?
Guy
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Chris Ho :)
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31 Oct 2013 09:03 |
(the 1850 Marriage below)
Marriage (Find My Past) Grooms Last Name:Meyers Grooms First Name:John (Collier) Grooms Fathers First Name:William Grooms Fathers Last Name:Mayers Grooms Parish: Grooms Age:Full Brides Last Name:Powell Brides First Name:Louisa Brides Fathers First Name:Richard Brides Fathers Last Name:Powell Brides Parish: Brides Age:Minor County:Monmouthshire Place / Parish:Llanwenarth Citra Marriage Year:1850 Marriage Month:Feb Marriage Day:25 Page:98 Record source:Monmouthshire Marriages - Transcripts Data provider:Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru
Chris :)
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rootgatherer
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30 Oct 2013 22:06 |
Blast - maybe not as they are Web in 1851
Name: John Web Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Lucy Web Gender: Male Where born: Llanwenarth, Monmouthshire, Wales Civil Parish or Township: Llanwenarth Ultra County/Island: Monmouthshire Country: Wales Registration District: Abergavenny Sub-registration District: Blaenavon ED, institution, or vessel: 2c Piece: 2447 Folio: 80 Page Number: 11 Household Schedule Number: 43 Household Members: Name Age John Web 25 Lucy Web 22 Thomas Williams 24 Visitor
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rootgatherer
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30 Oct 2013 21:50 |
Thought I would look at the John and Lucy family again.
A different spelling for the surname?
Name: John Maiers Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1854 Registration District: Abergavenny Inferred County: Monmouthshire Volume: 11a Page: 57
Name: Clara Jane Maiers Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1857 Registration District: Abergavenny Inferred County: Monmouthshire Volume: 11a Page: 57
Name: Eliezer Maiers Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1859 Registration District: Abergavenny Inferred County: Monmouthshire Volume: 11a Page: 56
Name: William Mayers Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1852 Registration District: Abergavenny Inferred County: Monmouthshire Volume: 11a Page: 63
Name: William Mayers Birth Date: abt 1853 Date of Registration: Mar 1923 Age at Death: 70 Registration District: Abergavenny Inferred County: Monmouthshire Volume: 11a Page: 69
Name: William Mayers Probate Date: 15 May 1923 Death Date: 21 Jan 1923 Death Place: Monmouthshire, Wales Registry: Llandaff
William Mayers of 79 High Street, Blaenavon. Probate to Isaac William Jordan Colliery overman. Effects £525. 13s. 7d.
I wonder is Lucy is a shortened form of Louisa?
???
Marriages Mar 1850 Davies Elizabeth Abergavenny 26 21 Mayers John Abergavenny 26 21 ????????????????? Powell Louisa Abergavenny 26 21 ????????????????? Price Mary Abergavenny 26 21 Thomas David Abergavenny 26 21 Tippins Thomas Abergavenny 26 21 Went John Abergavenny 26 21 Williams Mary Abergavenny 26 21
From the 1851 census John Went married one of the Marys, Thomas Tippins also married a Mary. David Thomas married Elizabeth Davies. So it looks like John Mayers married Louisa Powell.
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Chris Ho :)
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30 Oct 2013 18:56 |
Burial (Find My Past) Last name:Mayers First Name:John Webb County:Monmouthshire Place / Parish:Blaenavon Age:56 Burial Year:1913 Burial Month:Oct Burial Day:29 Died Year: Died Month: Died Day: Fathers Forenames: Mothers Forenames: Husbands Forenames: Page:146 Record source:Monmouthshire Burials - Transcripts Data provider:Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru
(saw above if fitting anywhere)
Chris :)
(other Burials for Blaenavon)
MAYERS Evelyn Maud 1912 1905 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Herbert 1893 1893 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS John 1899 1832 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS John Webb 1913 1857 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Mary 1916 1851 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Mary Louisa 1892 1872 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Thomas 1928 1869 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS William 1923 1853 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW
(Marriages, Blaenavon)
MAYERS Ethel 1914 1892 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Gwladys 1916 1896 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Thomas 1913 1891 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYER Thomas 1906 1879 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW
(Baptisms, Blaenavon)
MAYERS Herbert 1892 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Matthew Francis 1911 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MEARS John 1825 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MEARS William 1829 Blaenavon Monmouthshire VIEW
(Burials, Trevithin)
MAYERS Florence 1898 1897 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS George 1932 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS George 1932 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Ivor Devis 1928 1928 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS John 1863 1822 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Joseph 1835 1831 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Joseph 1841 1840 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Laura 1889 1887 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Mervyn 1925 1911 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Thomas 1860 1797 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Thomas 1860 1860 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Thorold 1908 1887 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MEARS George 1923 1873 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MEYERS Sarah 1881 1799 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW
(Marriages, Trevithin)
MAYERS Alice 1898 1880 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Alice 1898 1880 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Arthur 1904 1878 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Arthur 1904 1878 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS George 1918 1897 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Horace 1920 1897 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS John 1842 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Martha 1915 1896 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Thomas Ivor 1920 1893 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS William 1871 1850 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYER Sarah 1850 1828 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW
(Baptisms, Trevithin)
MAYERS Albert Augustus 1910 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Alice 1901 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Annie 1901 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Annie Elizabeth 1903 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS George 1897 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS Joseph 1905 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS William 1865 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MAYERS William Henry 1906 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MEARS Daniel Maslen 1858 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW VIEW MEYERS John Morris 1900 Trevethin Monmouthshire VIEW
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brummiejan
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30 Oct 2013 17:27 |
The name change is a bit strange isn't it. Not unknown for families to do this of course, but Mayers isn't the most obvious name to change to! And they did keep the Webb name as a middle name. Very interesting. A few people on Ancestry have this family in their trees, though they haven't made the Webb link as far as I can see. Please let us know what the death cert reveals, would be very interested to know! Jan
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Guy
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30 Oct 2013 16:59 |
Very helpful. Well it looks as though I've now a bit more work to do to find out if "my" John Mayers born circa 1817 who married Mary Bowen in Trevethin in 1842 has any connection with the John Mayers identified bt Treegatherer in the 1871 census who must have been born around 1826 and may have married a Lucy somebody around 1850.
Wm Mayers death cert was ordered last night, we shall see...!
Guy
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brummiejan
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30 Oct 2013 14:12 |
Right.
William Webb Mayers was born 1853 in Blaenavon. He has father John Mayers, collier. This is almost certainly the William found by rootgatherer - his father John is also a collier. In addition, your William was born in Pontypool
I do think they are a different family. Interestingly, I am pretty confident this is them 1861. So NOT your William.
1861 Wales Census Name: William Webb Age: 8 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853 Relation: Son Father's Name: John Webb Mother's Name: Lucy Webb Gender: Male Where born: Llanwenarth, Monmouthshire, Wales Civil Parish or Township: Blaenavon Ecclesiastical parish: Blaenavon County/Island: Monmouthshire Country: Wales Registration District: Abergavenny Sub-registration District: Blaenavon
John Webb 35 Lucy Webb 35 William Webb 8 Clara Jane Webb 4 Eleazar Webb 1 Jane K Watkins 32 Elizabeth J Watkins 4
I would be inclined to get that death cert and see if it confirms him to be yours.
Jan
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Guy
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29 Oct 2013 23:53 |
I feel pretty certain that "my" Wm Mayers aged 10 was with his grandmother in 1861 in Cadoxton juxta Neath. I will indeed get the death of Sept 1865. That then gets us to the marriage cert of 1871 of two 21 yr olds - Wm Mayers and Mary Price, William being the son of John Mayers a collier of Trevethin. Was that really the marriage of an 18yr old William Mayers found by Rootgatherer in the 1871 census the son of a John and Lucy? The suggestion is that that John married a Lucy around 1851, the only one I can find is a marriage in Jan-Mar 1850 in Abergavenny V 26 p 21 apparently not to a Lucy anybody but I will check it out. It's not that Mayers is that common a name to have two Williams son of John in the 1850's in Monmouthshire has me confused.
Guy
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brummiejan
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29 Oct 2013 22:19 |
As William was in Neath 1861, have you considered this death?
Deaths Sep 1865 (>99%) Mayers William Neath 11a 263
Jan
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brummiejan
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29 Oct 2013 22:17 |
Guy, I think rootgatherer is saying (if I understand it correctly) that William Webb Mayers is probably not yours - that he is the son of another John Mayers entirely (this would fit as John Webb Mayers married to Mary was born in Blaenavon):
1901 Wales Census Name: William Webb Mayon [William Webb Mayers] Age in 1901: 48 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Mary Webb Mayon Gender: Male Where born: Blaenavon, Monmouthshire, Wales Civil Parish: Blaenavon Ecclesiastical parish: Blaenavon Town: Blaenavon County/Island: Monmouthshire
Registration District: Abergavenny Sub-registration District: Blaenavon
William Webb Mayon 48 Mary Webb Mayon 49 Emily Webb Mayon 18 Arthur Webb Mayon 15
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Guy
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29 Oct 2013 21:04 |
I'm absolutely certain that "my" John Mayers married a Mary Bowen 22 Oct 1842. This John Mayers was a collier who died in 1863. So it seems unlikely that the 1871 census 18 yr old William Mayers son of John and LUCY is the right one, he could indeed be the one whose birth was in Apr-Jun 1852 in Abergavenny Vol 11a Page 63. Who this 1871 John Mayers who married a Lucy is a mystery at the moment.
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Catherine
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29 Oct 2013 19:52 |
There is this death?
Deaths Mar 1861 (>99%) MAYER Mary Hereford 6a 352
..........which is a possible reason for William being with his grandmother.
Where was his brother and father in 1861?
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rootgatherer
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29 Oct 2013 19:09 |
For. ref.
Name: Wm Mayers Age: 10 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851 Relation: Grandson Gender: Male Where born: Pontypool, Monmouthshire, Wales Civil Parish or Township: Cadoxton Juxta Neath County/Island: Glamorgan Country: Wales Street Address: View Image Condition as to marriage: View Image Education: View Image Employment status: View Image Occupation: View Image Registration District: Neath Sub-registration District: Ystradvelltey ED, institution, or vessel: 3b Household Schedule Number: 59 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 4088 Folio: 41 Page Number: 11 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Bowen 61 Ebenezer Bowen 22 John Bowen 19 Wm Mayers 10 John Williams 23
I could be wrong but I think that this is the man who later appears as William Webb Mayers
1871
Name: William Mayers Age: 18 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853 Relation: Son Father's Name: John Mayers Mother's Name: Lucy Mayers Gender: Male Where born: Blarnnon Civil Parish: Llanover Ecclesiastical parish: Blaenavon Town: Blaenavon County/Island: Monmouthshire Country: Wales Registration District: Abergavenny Sub-registration District: Blaenavon ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Household Schedule Number: 69 Piece: 5313 Folio: 38 Page Number: 16 Household Members: Name Age John Mayers 45 Lucy Mayers 41 William Mayers 18 John Mayers 16 Joshua Mayers 8 Alice Mayers 6 Tom Mayers 4 Eleazar Mayers 1
Births Jun 1852 Mayers William Abergavenny 11a 63
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rootgatherer
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29 Oct 2013 19:00 |
Name: John Mayers Probate Date: 21 Jan 1885 Death Date: 17 Jan 1863 Death Place: Monmouthshire, Wales Registry: Llandaff
On the actual image it seems to indicate that John was a widower when he died. So had his wife died before 1863 please?
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Catherine
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29 Oct 2013 18:36 |
Just for ref, for Mary's date and place of birth:-
1851 Wales Census about Mary Magers Name: Mary Magers Age: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1825 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: John Magers Gender: Female Where born: Trevethin, Monmouthshire, Wales Civil Parish or Township: Trevethin Ecclesiastical parish: Trevethin County/Island: Monmouthshire Country: Wales Registration District: Pontypool Sub-registration District: Pontypool ED, institution, or vessel: 2g Piece: 2449 Folio: 171 Page Number: 9 Household Schedule Number: 35 Household Members: Name Age John Magers 79 - (looks like this should be 29) Mary Magers 26 John Magers 5 William Magers 11 Mo
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