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Alan
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29 Jan 2015 14:02 |
Thanks everyone, I will obtain her birth certificate, however the service record goes a long way to resolving my concerns.
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Choccy
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28 Jan 2015 22:48 |
British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
Name:Winifred May Brown
Birth Date:19 May 1911
Birth Place:Hensington (Kensington0
Document Year:1915
Relationship to Soldier:Child
Form Title:Descriptive Report Enlistment
George James Brown Self (Head) Emily Edith Pulla (Pullen) Spouse Lilian Ada Brown Child Violet Florence Brown Child >>>>>>>Winifred May Brown Child Rose Ethel Brown Child Nellie Mildred Brown Child Alfred James Brown Child Thomas Henry Brown Child Edward Albert Brown Child Address - 14 Rendle Street, Westbourne Park
(married 17th February 1913 at Kensington Registry office)
1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census
14 Rendle Street North Kensington W, Kensington, London, England
Charlie Pullen Son - Male 0 1911 - -
Bert Pullen Head - Male 26 1885 Paddington London Porter G W R
Alice Pullen Wife - Female 22 1889 London London -
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Jacqueline
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28 Jan 2015 22:01 |
Alan
If you wish to try to make contact with Margaret, click on her name to send a message
She may not think to look at this thread now
They must have lied on the census..............not in the least unusual
Margaret says they married AFTER all their children were born
Have you thought of getting Winifred's birth cert?
The 'wife's' name on 1911 census is Emma E..............quite often Emma and Emily got mixed up
Hope this helps.......
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Alan
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28 Jan 2015 16:59 |
Just started on this family and am also questioning the parents of Winifred May Brown, I have the 1913 marriage certificate for her possible parents, George James Brown and Emily Edith Pullon, but the 1911 census for George James Brown and Emma Edith says they were married 12 years, and the wife's name is Emma not Edith.
Was this ever resolved?
Alan
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Margaret
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18 Oct 2013 08:42 |
Firstly sincere apologies for the long delay in my reply. Unfortunately a friend called round and did not leave for several hours so I could not get back to the computer until it was rather late. Thank you all so much for your sterling efforts. I think you have finally 'cracked' it choccy with the 1 Angola Mews address housing the family I have been searching for. What hasn't helped anyone is the fact that father and son are both James George/George James and transpose their names at will. I am truly grateful - I didn't think I would ever get to the bottom of all this. Thanks again all of you.
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MaureeninNY
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17 Oct 2013 23:42 |
I think one of the children's birth certs is going to be needed!
This looks like the Brown/English pair: England Census about James Brown Name: James Brown Age: 34 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847 Relationship to Head: Head Spouse: Caroline Brown Father: Richard English Gender: Male Where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England Civil Parish: Fulham County/Island: London Country: England Street Address: 1 Raven Place Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Bricklayer Registration District: Fulham Sub-registration District: Fulham ED, institution, or vessel: 19 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 70 Folio: 20 Page Number: 35 James Brown 34 Caroline Brown 30 Emily Brown 9 Beatrice Brown 7 Edith Brown 4 James R. Brown 1 Richard English 74
Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 70; Folio: 20; Page: 35
There's the marriage for James George Brown to Caroline Grimme in 1870 but he's a blacksmith.
Maureen
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Choccy
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17 Oct 2013 22:42 |
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Florence Ada Brown
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Age: 23
Spouse Name: Charles Richard Mott
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Dec 1902
Parish: Notting Hill Christ Church
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Father Name: James George Brown (Plumber)
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Mott
Register Type: Parish Register Address of bride - 1 Angola Mews
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Choccy
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17 Oct 2013 22:36 |
1871
RG number: RG10 Piece: 42 Folio: 35 Page: 64 Reg. District: Kensington Sub District: Kensington Town Parish: Kensington Enum. District: 31 Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Address: Barton Terrace, Kensington County: London, Middlesex
BROWN, George Head M 25 1846 Middlesex (Gas fitter) BROWN, Caroline Wife F 22 1849 Middlesex
Marriage certificate to Caroline English has him as a Bricklayer and his father as a Foreman at Gas Works. ??possibility that occupations should be the other way round
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MaureeninNY
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17 Oct 2013 22:18 |
That looks like them to me,Choccy,
The address on the 1891 image is also 1 Angola Mews.
Maureenxx
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Choccy
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17 Oct 2013 22:18 |
London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Eliza Mabel Brown
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 21 Feb 1883 (born 6th Dec 1882)
Father's Name: James George Brown
Mother's Name: Caroline Brown
Parish or Poor Law Union: Notting Hill Christ Church
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Register Type: Parish Registers
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Choccy
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17 Oct 2013 22:06 |
???
1891
RG number: RG12 Piece: 29 Folio: 22 Page: 46 Reg. District: Kensington Sub District: Kensington Town Parish: Kensington Enum. District: Ecclesiastical District: All Saints City/Municipal Borough: Address: 1, Bevington Road, Kensington County: London
BROWN, James Head Married M 45 1846 Gas Fitter Worsley, Lancashire BROWN, Caroline Wife Married F 41 1850 Kensington, London >>>>>BROWN, George Son M 14 1877 Kensington, London BROWN, Flora Daughter F 11 1880 Kensington, London BROWN, Mable Daughter F 8 1883 Kensington, London
?? Flora
London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Florence Ada Brown
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 21 Feb 1883 (born 27th Sept 1880)
Father's Name: James George Brown (Plumber)
Mother's Name: Caroline Brown
Parish or Poor Law Union: Notting Hill Christ Church
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
Register Type: Parish Registers
Address - Angola Mews (same as 1901 census)
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Choccy
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17 Oct 2013 22:01 |
a plumber in 1901 and 1911
1901
RG number: RG13 Piece: 29 Folio: 68 Page: 38 Reg. District: Kensington Sub District: Kensington Town Parish: Kensington Enum. District: 59 Ecclesiastical District: St Columb Notting Hill City/Municipal Borough: Address: 1, Angola Mews, Kensington County: London
BROWN, James Head Married M 55 1846 Plumber Marylebone, London BROWN, Carloine Wife Married F 50 1851 Marylebone, London
1911
RG14PN43 RG78PN2 RD1 SD2 ED3 SN104 Reg. District: Paddington Sub District: Paddington Central Parish: Paddington Enum. District: 3 Address: 30 Kensal Road County: London
BROWN, James George Head Married M 65 1846 Plumber Mary Le Bone London BROWN, Caroline Wife Married 41 years F 60 1851 Clearkingwell London
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MaureeninNY
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17 Oct 2013 21:59 |
I wonder????
London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about James George Brown Name: James George Brown Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 28 Nov 1877 Father's Name: James George Brown Occ:Plumber Mother's Name: Caroline Brown Parish or Poor Law Union: Notting Hill All Saints Borough: Kensington and Chelsea Register Type: Parish Registers ............ The possible siblings baptisms on Ancestry seem to point to this family: 1881 census transcription details for: 1, Angola Mews, Kensington
RG number: RG11 Piece: 37 Folio: 139 Page: 44 Reg. District: Kensington Sub District: Kensington Town Parish: Kensington Enum. District: Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Address: 1, Angola Mews, Kensington County: London, Middlesex BROWN, John Head Married M 34 1847 Builders Labourer London, London, Middlesex BROWN, Caroline Wife Married F 31 1850 Wife Of Labourer BROWN, Louisa Daughter Single F 7 1874 Scholar Blind BROWN, Caroline Daughter Single F 5 1876 Scholar BROWN, James G Son Single M 3 1878 BROWN, F Ada Daughter Single F 1 1880
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GlitterBaby
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17 Oct 2013 21:36 |
Ancestry has been a right pain for the last 20 mins or so
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PricklyHolly
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17 Oct 2013 21:25 |
I am having problems with the Ancestry site at the moment........
Every page i try to view is temporarily unavailabe.
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PricklyHolly
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17 Oct 2013 21:21 |
1901 England Census about George J Brown Name: George J Brown Age: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Emma E Brown Gender: Male Where born: North Kensington, London, England Civil Parish: Kensington Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints Notting Hill County/Island: London Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View Image Registration District: Kensington Sub-registration District: Kensington Town ED, institution, or vessel: 56 Neighbors: View others on page Household Schedule Number: 302 Piece: 28 Folio: 120 Page Number: 38 Household Members: Name Age George J Brown 26 Emma E Brown 23 George W Brown 1 Lillian A Brown 2 8 Months
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PricklyHolly
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17 Oct 2013 20:58 |
For info...
..1911 England Census about George James Brown Name: George James Brown Age in 1911: 35 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Male Birth Place: London, United Kingdom Civil Parish: Kensington County/Island: London Country: England Street Address: 65 Swinbrook Road, North Kensington Marital Status: Married Years Married: 12 Estimated Marriage Year: 1899 Occupation: GREENGROCERS ASSISTANT Registration District: Kensington Registration District Number: 2 Sub-registration District: Kensington North ED, institution, or vessel: 18 Piece: 182 Household Members: Name Age George James Brown 35 Emma Edith Brown 33 George Brown 11 Lillie Brown 10 Alfred Brown 8 Nellie Brown 7 Toramy Brown 4 Violet Brown 3 Rose Brown 1
FMP version...
1911 census Person: BROWN, George James Address: 65 Swinbrook Road BROWN, George James Head Married12 years M 35 1876 Greengrocers Assistant London Kensington VIEW BROWN, Emma Edith Wife Married F 33 1878 London Kensington VIEW BROWN, George Son M 11 1900 School London Kensington VIEW BROWN, Lillie Daughter F 10 1901 School London Kensington VIEW BROWN, Alfred Son M 8 1903 School London Kensington VIEW BROWN, Nellie Daughter F 7 1904 School London Kensington VIEW BROWN, Tommy Son M 4 1907 London Kensington VIEW BROWN, Violet Daughter F 3 1908 London Kensington VIEW BROWN, Rose Daughter F 1 1910 London Kensington VIEW RG number: RG14 Piece: 182 Reference: RG14PN182 RG78PN6 RD2 SD3 ED18 SN273 Registration District: Kensington Sub District: Kensington North Enumeration District: 18 Parish: Kensington Address: 65 Swinbrook Road County: London (Married 12 years...........7 children born and living)
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GlitterBaby
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17 Oct 2013 20:50 |
You mean this marriage
Name: James Brown Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848 Age: 22 Spouse Name: Caroline English Spouse Age: 22 Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 25 Dec 1870 Parish: West Kensington St Mary Borough: Hammersmith and Fulham Father Name: James Brown Spouse Father Name: Richard English Register Type: Parish Register
This James is a bricklayer
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PatinCyprus
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17 Oct 2013 20:50 |
Found these 1901 and 1891 but am unable to see originals at the moment will get back when I can to see if he's a plumber.
James Brown Age: 54
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Caroline Brown Gender: Male
Where born: Chelsea, London, England
Civil Parish: Fulham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Oswald
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View Image
Registration District: Fulham
Sub-registration District: North East Fulham
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 390
Piece: 61
Folio: 92
Page Number: 57
Household Members:
Name
Age
James Brown 54 Caroline Brown 53 James Brown 20 Amy Brown 18 William F Brown 16 Frederick Brown 12 Beatrice Brown 6
View Original Record View original image View blank form
James Brown
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Caroline Brown
Gender: Male
Where born: Chelsea, London, England
Civil Parish: Fulham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Johns and St Oswalds
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View Image
Registration District: Fulham
Sub-registration District: Fulham
ED, institution, or vessel: 35
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 51
Folio: 22
Page Number: 39
Household Members:
Name
Age
James Brown 44 Caroline Brown 43 Beatrice Brown 17 Edith Brown 14 James Brown 4 Amy Brown 8 Willie Brown 5 Frederick Brown 2
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Margaret
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17 Oct 2013 20:26 |
I am desperately in need of some help with three mammoth frustrating problems I have. I will list them individually over the next couple of days and would appreciate any help/thoughts you can come up with. All three relate to ongoing research over the last several months.
First. I have a Winifred May Brown b. 1911, the dau of George James Brown and Emily Edith Pullen. This couple were married 1913 - after the birth of all nine of their children. Both George James and Emily Edith were born Kensington area of London. I was unable to positively identify George James via the census returns to establish his father so I sent for the marriage certificate which I received yesterday. On it George James Brown is age 36 a bachelor, profession greengrocer living 65 Swinbrook Road. His father is names as James George Brown (which doesn't help much) and he is a plumber. Emily Edith is 34 a spinster living 65 Swinbrook Road and her father is William a house painter.
I got the 1911 census up to check on James George Brown and family and the only James George Brown b. London living London was living 30 Kensal Road with wife Caroline and is age 65 with wife 60. In 1911 the won George would be 34 which would make the father about 31 when he was born which sounds ok. The James George on the 1911 is also described as a plumber which made it sound most likely to be him. According to the census James was born Marylebone and Caroline Clerkenwell. However, According to the 1911 they had been married 41 years and had had 13 children, 4 living and 11 dead. With this in mind I went back to the census returns hoping to find James George and Caroline with some of the four living offspring. I did find one where a Mr. English (Caroline's father) was living with them. On the basis of this I looked for a marriage and found a marriage of a James Brown to Caroline English at St. Mary's Church, Fulham. However I have not been successful in finding the family together on other census returns. I am going round in circles and would appreciate some guidance/help in mentally sorting this out as I do not want to get it wrong. Many thanks. Apologies if I have not made this very clear but my head is buzzing.
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