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mgnv
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27 Jun 2013 21:11 |
EGB - Jews and quakers were also authorized to keep official marr rego's, but most non-conformists could only be authorized from 1898 on. However, some didn't get authorized until a couple of years had passed. My wife's grandparents were wed at Standishgate Methodist Church in 1902q1, but there's the registrar's signature on their m.cert. It was only later in that quarter that it was authorized to keep official marr rego's. The first entry is for:
Marriages Mar 1902 (>99%) Clayton Arthur Wigan 8c 253
Of course, a church could keep its own unofficial rego's - here's an e.g. from http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
Marriage: 6 Jan 1850 St John RC, Wigan, Lancs. James Boylan - Bridgit Flynn - Witness: Peter Moffat; Mary Lanagan Married by: Rev Mr Cotham Source: Original register at LRO
and the matching local index entry from http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1850 Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference BOYLAN James FLYNN Bridget Wigan, Register Office or Registrar Attended Wigan & Leigh ROW/4/122
I've never seen exactly when in 1898 the change came into effect. I'm a bit puzzled by the fact I said 1980s for RCs, rather than an exact year. I don't know am exact year, so I think maybe I've never seen anything written down on the matter, but am relying on info from someone I trusted.
Georgina - apologies for digressing in the middle of your thread.
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Eringobragh1916
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27 Jun 2013 08:24 |
mgnv...You are amazing..!
You have just answered a question (without even knowing it)....the family have only just been discussing when the Registrar stopped attending at RC marriages nobody knew..now we do. Thanks for that.
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mgnv
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27 Jun 2013 06:32 |
EGB - it was accidental - I wanted to check that the 1898 & 1908 marr locations were as claimed, so I looked on LancsBMD, but instead of holding the ctrl key down when I clicked on those 2 years (which would have just gotten those 2 years) I held the shift key down on the second date, and so got all the years in between. When I saw the 1898 was a rego office or registrar attended, I rechecked your post and saw it was an RC church, so the registrar would have to attend as RCs weren't trusted to keep official marr regos until the 1980s.
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Georgina
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26 Jun 2013 16:35 |
would like to thank everyone for the information given to me ,im waiting on family members to look at this and i can print it off ,but a very big thank you to you all
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Eringobragh1916
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26 Jun 2013 09:25 |
Georgina....
Re: Emigration Of Ernest Albert Crook 1911 (see ***alviegal*** 11.57.25.06)
This may be of value if you want at sometime to follow through on William Henry/Ernest in the US.
SS Mehanns out of L.Pool 17 June 1921 arrived Penn. 25 June 1921 Crew Member Ernest A Crook 53 yrs. B Plymouth England US National. Jersey City 8.8.1917 Home address : 119 Hobart Ave Bayonne New Jersey.
You can access a copy of Ships Manifest from familysearch.org
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Eringobragh1916
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26 Jun 2013 08:32 |
mgnv...I learn something new every day.... (re familysearch) I never knew that....usually have to end up browsing through the lot...!!! Thanks for the info.
So Ernest A married 3 times...didnt see that coming...!
What prompted you to look for another marriage...? Just goes to show what another pair of eyes can find
Cannot so far connect the Matthews family (1911 Census Salford) where young Wm Henry Crook is living as "Cousin" ....but it must be from the Matthews (Plymouth ) side of the family ..Elizabeth the wife b Salford was nee Stennet.
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mgnv
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25 Jun 2013 22:17 |
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1895 Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference CROOK Ernest A MCINTYRE Alice West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/159/72
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1904 Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference CROOK Ernest A HAGEN Isabella Salford Register Office or Registrar Attended Salford SAL/94/71
Marriages Dec 1904 (>99%) Crook Ernest Albert Salford 8d 211 Hagen Isabella Salford 8d 211
Deaths Sep 1905 (>99%) Crook Isabella 35 Salford 8d 120
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1909 Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference CROOK Ernest A BATH Elizabeth J Salford St Ignatius Salford C28/2/93
We have Alviegal's transcription of the marr from: http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ but lets ignore this for now, and look at an alternative way of finding the image.
Although FS call the collection: England, Lancashire, Cheshire, Yorkshire, Parish Registers, 1603-1910 it's really Greater Manchester, and there's nothing there west of Irlam nor north of Bolton.
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=UNITED_KINGDOM_IRELAND Follow the path below and pick "Browse through 392,897 images": England, Lancashire, Ches...rish Registers, 1603-1910 > Lancashire > Salford, St Ignatius > Marriages, 1906-1920 > Image 48 of 251
From LancsBMD we have the ref C28/2/93 - C28 is the church code (Salford, St Ignatius); 2 is the marr rego # (and covered 1906-1920, but only parts of the start/end years), and 93 is the entry #. At 2 entries per page, entry# 93 should fall on page 47 (round fractions up - entry 1 is on page 1). However, there are 251 images here, not the normal 250, so there's an extra image somewhere. Image 47 has entries 91-92, so we need to look at the next image.
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Eringobragh1916
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25 Jun 2013 17:13 |
Georgina....The thread posted by ***Alviegal*** (11.57) above shows Alice and Ernest 1901....you will note the Connor family Susannah "McIntyre" Connor is sister of Alice...she married Lawrence W.Connor (Widower) Reg. Dec Quarter 1898 8b 100 ... They married St Annes CE Church L.Pool
Lawrence Walter Connor had been previously married to a Marie Grainger Reg Dec Quarter 1893 L'Pool 8b 98. They married at All saints L.Pool she obviously died before he married Susannah but I cant find her death....
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Eringobragh1916
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25 Jun 2013 14:03 |
Just for re ference......
Census, 1881"Name: Walter Winter Age (Original): 42 Gender: Male Birth Year: 1839 Birthplace: Toybridge, Devon, England Relationship to Head of Household: Head Marital Status: Married Occupation: Iron Labourer Address: 105 West Worsley St Event Place: Salford, Lancashire, England Disability: Blind Record Type: Household
Head Walter Winter M 42 Toybridge, Devon, Wife Mary E Winter F 38 Newton Abbott, Devon ,***Mother In Law Elizabeth Watkins F 67 Newton Bushel, Devon, Son George E M Winter M 19 Plymouth, Devon, England Brother In Law Edward C Watkins M 28 Newton Abbott, Devon, England ***Nephew Ernest A Crook M 13 Plymouth, Devon, ***Niece Harriet E Crook F 7 Bootle, Lancashire,
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Eringobragh1916
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25 Jun 2013 13:58 |
Registered Plymouth Dec.Quarter 1859
Name: William Henry Crook Event Type: Marriage Event Date: 1859 Event Place: Devon Age: 23 Birth Year (Estimated): 1836 Spouse's Name: Laura Jane Watkins
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Eringobragh1916
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25 Jun 2013 13:51 |
Its going to get complicated...!!
This is Ernests family 1881
Census, 1881"Name: Laura Jane Crook Age (Original): 37 Gender: Female Birth Year: 1844 Birthplace: Torquay, Devon, England Relationship to Head of Household: Head Marital Status: Widow Occupation: Charwoman Address: 110 Balliol Rd Event Place: Bootle Cum Linacre, Lancashire, England Household Gender Age Birthplace Head Laura Jane Crook F 37 Torquay, Devon, England Daughter Isabella Crook F 19 Plymouth, Devon, England Son Edwin Geo Crook M 10 Walton, Lancashire, England Son Wm James Crook M 6 Walton, Lancashire, England
Laura Watkins married Wm Henry Crook 1859 Devon... Laura's mother is Elizabeth and living with the Winter family Salford (1881) Both Edwin and Wm James were Baptised St Peters L.Pool
Edwin Ge. Birth reg West Derby June Quarter 1870 8b 476 Wm James Birth reg west Derby June quarter 1875 8b 470
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alviegal
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25 Jun 2013 12:56 |
Young William Henry in 1901.
1911 census transcription details for: 92 Phoebe Street Regent Road Salford Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN24061 RG78PN1384 RD465 SD4 ED18 SN169 Reg. District: Salford Sub District: Regent Road Parish: Salford Enum. District: 18 Address: 92 Phoebe Street Regent Road Salford County: Lancashire Name Relation Condition/ Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born MATTHEWS, George Edwin Head Married M 49 1862 Tool Grinder Plymouth Devon MATTHEWS, Elizabeth Wife Married 29 years F 51 1860 Salford Lanc MATTHEWS, Walter Son Single M 24 1887 Iron Turner Salford Lanc MATTHEWS, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 22 1889 Dressmaker Salford Lanc MATTHEWS, Eleanor Daughter Single F 19 1892 Assistant Drapery Salford Lanc CROOK, William Cousin M 13 1898 School Liverpool Lanc MATTHEWS, William Adopted Son M 12 1899 School Salford Lanc RHODES, Ernest Boarder M 5 1906 Salford Lanc RHODES, Edith Boarder F 4 1907 Salford Lanc
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Eringobragh1916
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25 Jun 2013 12:35 |
Thanks a million for that ...!! Had asked "Debbie" to check 1911 for me (on Georgina's behalf) so as I wasnt sending her up the wrong road with Ernest A Crook.... He is listed 1881 living Salford nephew to Walter Winter and family (all b Devon) except Harriet Eliz.Crook niece (sister to Ernest) b Bootle.... 1891 has EA living Kirkdale with ?parents but Harriet is still in Salford.... So Ernest remarried back in Salford mmm
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alviegal
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25 Jun 2013 11:57 |
Here is Alice Eringobragh
1901 census transcription details for: 18, Priam Street, Kirkdale Print Close
National Archive Reference: RG number: RG13 Piece: 3471 Folio: 67 Page: 24 Reg. District: West Derby Sub District: Kirkdale Parish: Kirkdale Enum. District: 39 Ecclesiastical District: St Pauls City/Municipal Borough: Address: 18, Priam Street, Kirkdale County: Lancashire Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born CROOK, Ernest A Head Married M 33 1868 Dock Labourer Plymouth, Devonshire CROOK, Alice Wife Married F 27 1874 Ireland CROOK, William H Son M 3 1898 Lpool CROOK, Laura J Mother Widow F 58 1843 Plymouth CONNOR, Lawrence W Head Married M 29 1872 Boiler Maker Bootle CONNOR, Susannah Wife Married F 25 1876 Ireland CONNOR, Mary Daughter F 1 1900 Lpool
Civil Registration event: Death Print Close Name: CROOK, Alice Registration district: West Derby County: Lancashire Year of registration: 1901 Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec Age at death: 28 Volume no: 8B Page no: 292
Possibly died in childbirth or soon after as there is the death of Ernest Albert in 1902, West Derby, aged 0.
Ernest's 2nd marriage.
Marriage: 9 Feb 1909 St Ignatius, Salford, Lancashire, England Ernest Albert Crook - 40, Stoker, Widower, 92 Phoebe Street Elizabeth Jane Bath - 39, Weaver, Spinster, 20 West Howard Street Groom's Father: William Henry Crook, (deceased), Mariner Bride's Father: Robert Bath, (deceased), Tailor Witness: John William Harwood; Polly Harwood Married by Banns by: R.A.E. Bell (Rector) Register: Marriages 1906 - 1920, Page 47, Entry 93 Source: Parish Register
1911 census transcription details for: 20 West Howard St Salford Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN24063 RG78PN1384 RD465 SD4 ED20 SN317 Reg. District: Salford Sub District: Regent Road Parish: Salford Enum. District: 20 Address: 20 West Howard St Salford County: Lancashire Name Relation Condition/ Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born HARWOOD, John William Head Married M 32 1879 Foreman Wheelwright Hull Yks Hessle HARWOOD, Rolly Wife Married 7 years F 34 1877 Lancs Salford HARWOOD, Edith Daughter F 6 1905 School Lancs Salford BATH, Sarah M In Law Widow F 74 1837 Cornwall Liskeard CROOK, Elizabeth Jane Sister In Law Married 2 years F 41 1870 Cornwall Liskeard
They then emigrated.
Philadelphia Passenger Lists, 1800-1945 about Elizth jane Crook Name: Elizth jane Crook Arrival Date: 15 May 1911 Age: 41 Years Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870 Gender: Female Ethnic Background: English Port of Departure: Liverpool, England Ship Name: Merion Port of Arrival: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Friend's Name: Ernest Albert Crook Last Residence: England Birthplace: Liskeard, England Microfilm Roll Number: T840_89
She was with 13 yr old William Henry and they were travelling to NY.
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ErikaH
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25 Jun 2013 11:06 |
Georgina
If you don't know about freebmd........check it out. You'll find it invaluable
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/
As you will the following site................
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
Look at them both, and make yourself familiar with how to use them.......you'll be glad you did
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mgnv
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25 Jun 2013 08:58 |
I would suggest that from now on, we keep this thread for the UK stuff, and put the Canadian stuff on: http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1326906 [I'll edit this if Georgina says otherwise]
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Eringobragh1916
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24 Jun 2013 18:37 |
Alice (b 1874) married Ernest Albert Crook at St James RC Church Bootle 1895.. I dont have access for 1901Census to check for details..she is living Kirkdale West Derby.
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Maura
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24 Jun 2013 14:30 |
Alice, Susanna & James where baptised in Annaghlone Co. Down rootsireland.ie
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Eringobragh1916
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24 Jun 2013 13:20 |
For Ref.
Robert Proctor married Dora Brierley 1889 St Nicholas' Liverpool Jane b 1893 was Baptised St Joseph's Georgina b.1897 was Baptised St.Francis Xavier Rbt Edward b 1898 was Baptised St Nicholas'
Thomas McIntyre Baptised 1886 St Albans Michael Baptised 1889 St Albans
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mgnv
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24 Jun 2013 12:18 |
1901 England Census Transcription Street:200 ARLINGTON STREET Parish:KIRKDALE Town: City: County:Lancashire Country:ENGLAND Ecclesiastical District:ST AIDANS Municipal Ward:SANDHILLS Parliamentary Borough:KIRKDALE Registration District:WEST DERBY Registration Sub-District: Kirkdale Enumeration District:32 Archive Reference:RG13 Piece Number:3470 Folio:44 Page:35
PATRICK MCINTYRE 1854 47 Ireland HEAD W Dock Labourer PATRICK MCINTYRE 1884 17 Lpool, Lanc SON Dock Labourer THOMAS MCINTYRE 1887 14 Lpool, Lanc SON MICHAEL MCINTYRE 1890 11 Lpool, Lanc SON
Deaths Dec 1900 (>99%) McIntyre Mary Elizabeth 49 W. Derby 8b 357
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