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Hello, please could anyone help me track Helen Pepper or Ruth Sunter, current age approx 65 to 70 years old. Last known in the Houghton le Spring and Sunderland area of the North East. Helen had a daughter called Loretta, Ruth had 2 Children names unknown. Their parents were called Ruth & Peter Martin, who lived in Pennywell (Pennycross Road) in the late 60's/early 70's. Any information greatly received. :-)

Try www.192.com

Are you related?

Are these the parents?

Marriages Mar 1933 (>99%)
LAWSON Ruth Martin Sunderland 10a 878
Martin Peter Lawson Sunderland 10a 878

Use freebmd for info about offspring

The Martin who married Pepper is/was named ELLEN

There is no recorded marriage for Sunter to a RUTH I...with any surname

WOW Reggie that was quick :-) :-) :-) :-) That gives me so much more information Correct Ruth Martin Nee Lawson was my great Aunt, brother of my Grandad Benjamin Lawson and it was Ellen Martin who married Sonny Pepper. I have only just started my tree so I'm a willing (but slightly incapable) I am starting night school in September to learn more about the census which are available.

The trigger is to find out about the brother of Ruth Martin (Nee Lawson) and Benjamin Lawson (my grandfather) who was murdered by a press gang in Newcastle in the early part of the 1900's Its been a family tale of how he was set upon by a group of men, he resisted and they murdered him by slashing his femoral artery. Allegedly his pleas of help went unaided by the police as they thougt he was a drunk who wet his pants!

Thank you for the timeline of March 1933 - It gives me another starting point
Sincere thanks
Carole

Here's one site - absolutely essential for research

http://www.freebmd.org.uk

Available censuses are 1841 to 1911


freebmd has info for England /Wales from 1837 to approx 1960..........the later date varies depending on area.

Hello Carole - do you have a first name for the brother who was murdered?

I've found an article from 1914 about a George Lawson age 40 who was set about by some men who slashed the arteries in his thigh and he bled to death.

However, this happened in his own home in Monkwearmouth.

ADDED: Some newspaper reports refer to him as Edward Lawson and some also say known as Hardcastle.

The murderers were an Edward Fitzsimmons and his brother Owen, who was apparently too drunk to remember doing it.

The man from the newspaper article was a hawker. This 1911 could very well be him, and he has a son Benjamin .....

LAWSON, George Head Married M 36 1875 General Hawker Sunderland Durham
LAWSON, Hannah Wife Married15 years F 33 1878 Sunderland Durham
LAWSON, Benjamin Son Single M 14 1897 Wire Rope Boiler Sunderland Durham
GRAINGER, Benjamin Father Widower M 74 1837 Labourer General Highgate Lynn

RG number: RG14 Piece: 30225
Reference: RG14PN30225 RG78PN1742 RD555 SD3 ED13 SN270
Registration District: Sunderland
Sub District: Sunderland North
Enumeration District: 13
Parish: Sunderland

Address: 124 Victor Street Sunderland County: Durham

They'd had 4 children, 3 had died.

Have sent a pm to Carole asking her to check if the murder could be connected. If it is I'll send her the newspaper articles.

Hannah on the 1911 was obviously maiden name Grainger going by her father, there is this birth in 1916 with mmn Grainger:

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Jun 1916
Lawson Ruth I M Grainger Sunderland 10a 1405

Carole - have sent you the newspaper articles following message.

You mentioned family history has it that it was Benjamin and Ruth's brother who was murdered. If (and it is IF) the newspaper article is the right one (I think it may well be) then it would be Benjamin and Ruth's father who was murdered, not their brother.

I say Ruth's father, but if this is the right family then she was born too late for George Lawson to actually be her father (not too unusual, though, for a baby to be born to a widow following a relationship and the deceased husband be named as the father on a birth certificate).

In order for us to make the pieces fit can you tell us where and when both Benjamin and Ruth died? The ages on the death records will give us something to work back from.

new query about the convicted murderers
for info

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/general_chat/thread/1340647

How do you all do this, is there a course I should be attending to find out how to access all this information you have at your fingertips?
I feel so inadequate and don't want to keep bothering you all for information.

Hello again MarieCeleste,
Ruth Lawson died in Sunderland (Pennywell) approximately 1968. Her married name was Ruth Martin her deceased husband was Peter Martin who died before her, not sure when?. She had a son also called Peter who died at the age of about 20 in 1968ish He was a Leeds University student who was killed in a car crash en route from Leeds back to his home in Pennywell Sunderland. She also had 2 daughters Ruth (Sunter) and Ellen (Pepper) both I think are still living.
Benjamin Lawson died in Liverpool in the early 1950's he married Ellen Clynch, they had one son George Lawson (My father) born 7th Dec 1927
Grateful Thanks
Carole

about 10 years ago, I started looking on line for places where somebody might know something about my ancestors, about whom I knew almost nothing ... I first ran into the not very useful forums at genforum, but there I met someone who took the novice me on and said the word 'freebmd' to me ...

everything else, I have learned because I was lucky enough to run into a source on line myself or, in most cases, because somebody somewhere wrote about it or told me about it.

that's what you're doing now, as long as you take note of where everything is being found
( that is why it is so important and useful when people give the sources and not just the info found there!
... teaching a family historian to fish and not just serving them fish on a plate :-) )

just keep on reading and absorbing and you will build up a storehouse of sources too

and remember that not everybody here knows everything about where to find things ... it's the group effort that helps most :-)

and also not everybody can afford to subscribe or pay for every source, so the generosity of people who do that for more obscure sources helps all of us, myself definitely included!