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Michael
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6 May 2013 20:00 |
I am searching for positive information to help me trace when John died.
John Archer was born at Pevensey Sussex. His parents were George Archer and Harriett Fry. On 26 Apr 1873 John married Mary Ann Dickinson at Otley (Yorkshire) Reg Off. On the Marriage Cert John’s ‘Condition’ is described as Widower. I have not yet identified a previous marriage for John.
John and Mary Ann (I am one of their grt grt grandchildren) had 4 children who lived to adulthood. George A born 20 Feb 1874, at Timble nr Otley John Dickinson A born 10 Dec 1875, at Walthamstowe, Essex Mary A (my direct ancestor) born 24 Aug 1877, at Haverah Park, nr Harrogate Charles A born 22 Apr 1879, at Eastby, nr Skipton Then on 25 Jan 1881, there was a stillborn, at Eastby
I know that Mary Ann left John in 1889 and returned to live at Timble with their children.
According to the 1891 Census John was married to Sarah A Archer – possibly a false claim so they could live in ‘tied’ accommodation, or bigamously. Living with them were step-children with the surname Digance. I have located that in the 1901 Census the majority of the children were living in Sunderland with their mother Sarah A Digance. As John is not named I presume that in the previous 10 years John and Sarah parted, and she reverted to her previous surname.
When Mary A married in 1898 her father is named as John Archer (on the Marr Cert), but not annotated as ‘Deceased’. When Mary Ann died in 1921 her occupation is described as ‘Widow of John Archer a Ganger on Waterworks’. To date I have not traced when or where John passed away. More likely this was before the 1911 Census as MaryAnn is recorded as a widow.
I have compared all deaths for John Archer in the period 1891-1911. Some I have discounted due to there being a birth recorded in the same district.
There are 3 'favoured' options:
December Qrtr 1898 Cardiff March Qrtr 1907 Camberwell June Qrtr 1893 Hendon
Would appreciate if anybody has a John Archer who is one of the above, but not born in Pevensey, so I can eliminate that death from my list of possibilities.
Michael Ellison
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MarieCeleste
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6 May 2013 20:06 |
Hello Michael, welcome to the boards.
I doubt anyone who has the same John Archer will stumble across your post here - I'd suggest you use the Search All Trees facility to see if anyone else has him and then contact them to see if they can share any info.
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Michael
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6 May 2013 20:08 |
Thanks - will try that
Born on 26 Jul 1848
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SylviaInCanada
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7 May 2013 05:09 |
Michael ...............
don't forget that his wife Mary Ann may have described herself as Widow after she left him and moved to Timble, and that children and neighbours may only have known that description of her marital status.
You can only trust a few items of information on a death certificate. These are ..........
date and place of death cause of death name, address and occupation of the Informant name and address of doctor Name of coroner
Everything else is only what is known to the Informant ....................... and even spouses or children may not know the truth.
So, do not rely on the death certificate only for Mary Ann being a widow.
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patchem
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7 May 2013 06:58 |
You say that John was described on the 1873 wedding certificate as a widower. Have you found him in the 1871 census, and, if so, what was the description there? Thanks
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Fredk
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7 May 2013 07:24 |
Just for information
1881 Census Household Record Household Information Address Parish East Halton District Skipton, Skipton Administrative County Yorkshire (West Riding) Householder 1 Name John Archer Age 32 Estimated Year of Birth 1849 Relationship to Head of Household Head Occupation Navvy Birth Place Pevensey Birth County Sussex Householder 2 Name Mary Ann Archer Age 29 Estimated Year of Birth 1852 Relationship to Head of Household Wife Occupation Birth Place Snowdon Otley Birth County Yorkshire Householder 3 Name John D Archer Age 5 Estimated Year of Birth 1876 Relationship to Head of Household Son Occupation Juvenile Birth Place Walthamstow Birth County Essex Householder 4 Name Mary Archer Age 3 Estimated Year of Birth 1878 Relationship to Head of Household Daughter Occupation Juvenile Birth Place Havarah Park Birth County Yorkshire Householder 5 Name Charles Archer Age 1 Estimated Year of Birth 1880 Relationship to Head of Household Son Occupation Juvenile Birth Place Eastby Birth County Yorkshire Householder 6 Name John Thompson Age 40 Estimated Year of Birth 1841 Relationship to Head of Household Boarder Occupation Navvy Birth Place Weedon Birth County Nottinghamshire Householder 7 Name John Nutter Age 47 Estimated Year of Birth 1834 Relationship to Head of Household Boarder Occupation Navvy Birth Place Cononley Birth County Yorkshire Householder 8 Name Edmund Blackburn Age 39 Estimated Year of Birth 1842 Relationship to Head of Household Boarder Occupation Navvy Birth Place Battle Birth County Sussex Householder 9 Name Joseph Johnson Age 33 Estimated Year of Birth 1848 Relationship to Head of Household Boarder Occupation Navvy Birth Place Cattall Birth County Yorkshire
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MarieCeleste
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7 May 2013 08:33 |
Can't find him at all in 1871, which may have cast some light re: first marriage.
He's in several trees on Ancestry and no-one seems to have found the 1871 either, no death recorded for him.
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Fredk
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7 May 2013 08:38 |
Could this be John
1871 Census Household Record Household Information Address Pits, Little Parish Wolstanton District Wolstanton, Tunstall Administrative County Staffordshire Householder 1 Name Isaac Lilly Age 42 Estimated Year of Birth 1829 Relationship to Head of Household Head Occupation Birth Place Northamptonshire Birth County Northamptonshire Householder 2 Name Harriett Lilly Age 41 Estimated Year of Birth 1830 Relationship to Head of Household Wife Occupation Birth Place Northamptonshire Birth County Northamptonshire Householder 3 Name Sarah Lilly Age 15 Estimated Year of Birth 1856 Relationship to Head of Household Daughter Occupation Juvenile Birth Place Northamptonshire Birth County Northamptonshire Householder 4 Name Thomas Lilly Age 14 Estimated Year of Birth 1857 Relationship to Head of Household Son Occupation Juvenile Birth Place Glamorgan Birth County Glamorgan Householder 5 Name William Lilly Age 8 Estimated Year of Birth 1863 Relationship to Head of Household Son Occupation Juvenile Birth Place Glamorgan Birth County Glamorgan Householder 6 Name Edmund Lilly Age 5 Estimated Year of Birth 1866 Relationship to Head of Household Son Occupation Juvenile Birth Place Somerset Birth County Somerset Householder 7 Name Walter Lampitt Age 40 Estimated Year of Birth 1831 Relationship to Head of Household Boarder Occupation Birth Place Warwickshire Birth County Warwickshire Householder 8 Name John Archer Age 23 Estimated Year of Birth 1848 Relationship to Head of Household Boarder Occupation Birth Place Sussex Birth County Sussex
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Susan
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7 May 2013 08:38 |
Sorry to put anther one in the mix.
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about John Archer Name: John Archer Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847 Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1907 Age at Death: 60 Registration district: Guildford Inferred County: Surrey Volume: 2a Page: 79
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ErikaH
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7 May 2013 08:54 |
Until 1969, there was no DOB on a death cert, so, unless there is anything else about him which would set him apart from others of the same name born in the same year, your chances of pinpointing his death must be limited.....at best
Guildford entry............
Assuming that the person registering the death gave accurate info, he was born too early
The occupation of the one posted for 1871 was Horse Driver..birthplace Pevensey,
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Michael
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7 May 2013 21:42 |
Thanks everybody for your comments and advice.
There are other ideas I have considered.
Did John emigrate to Australia or America, maybe move to Scotland in search of work?
More obscure was John convicted of Bigamy and served a custodial sentence?
Until I find the answer to my dilemma John is only grt grt grandparent that I have been unable to identify his death.
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ErikaH
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7 May 2013 21:53 |
Have you considered purchasing the certs for the deaths you haven't eliminated?
Being jailed wouldn't alter the death info
What was his occupation on the 1873 marriage cert?
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ErikaH
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7 May 2013 21:55 |
Have you followed the advice about looking in 'search all trees'?
And did you see the 1871 census info for him?
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Susan
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8 May 2013 08:40 |
Michael
On looking at the image for the 1871 census posted by FredK i would say this is your man in 1871.
His name is mistranscribed and so is his Birth place,Correction forwarded to Ancestry.
It does not state he was a widow in that census :-)
Sue :-)
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ErikaH
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8 May 2013 09:16 |
The name is correctly transcribed on FMP............and the 'status' column is actually not filled-in.
We need confirmation from Michael that he has seen the info provided by Fredk, and about the man's occ when he married
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ErikaH
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8 May 2013 09:21 |
1891 for LOCATION
Person: ARCHER, John Address: Harris End, Nether Wyersdale, Scorton
ARCHER, John Head Married M 42 1849 Foreman On Public Works Pevensey, Sussex VIEW ARCHER, Sarah A Wife Married F 42 1849 Battle, Sussex VIEW DIGANCE, Sarah A Stepdaughter Single F 15 1876 Barrow in Furness, Lancashire VIEW DIGANCE, Elizabeth Stepdaughter F 14 1877 Alverstone, Lancashire VIEW DIGANCE, Mary Stepdaughter F 13 1878 Scholar Alverstone, Lancashire VIEW DIGANCE, Richard Stepson M 9 1882 Scholar Newhaven, Sussex VIEW DIGANCE, Joseph Stepson M 7 1884 Scholar Hull, Yorkshire VIEW BENNETT, Thomas Lodger Single M 71 1820 General Labourer Excavator Newton, Warwickshire VIEW HOLDEN, George Lodger Single M 69 1822 General Labourer Excavator New Bolingbroke, Lincolnshire VIEW FLETCHER, Thomas Lodger Single M 38 1853 General Labourer Excavator Hull, Yorkshire VIEW HOATH, John Lodger Single M 31 1860 General Labourer Excavator Rotherfield, Sussex VIEW WATERS, Elijah Lodger Single M 65 1826 General Labourer Excavator Farmborough, Somersetshire VIEW EVANES, William Lodger Single M 40 1851 General Labourer Excavator ?, Monmouthshire VIEW BENNETT, William Lodger Single M 40 1851 General Labourer Excavator Launceston, Cornwall VIEW BROWNING, Charles Lodger Single M 29 1862 General Labourer Excavator Deptford, Kent VIEW
Occupation in 1881............NAVVY
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Michael
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8 May 2013 23:32 |
Thanks for everbody's efforts.
Fredk & Susan - I've looked at the 1871 Census and agree that it highly likely to be my ancestor John, although the writting is not clear I can read 'Archer' and 'Pevensey'.
Reggie - John's occupation on the Marriage Cert is 'Excavator'. There are 7 Matches for John with other trees. Unfortunately I have previous contact with 6 of them through other family members and they all copied the info I have about John! Which leaves one person whom I have contacted.
Apologies I did not mention I had located John in 1881 & 1891.
I suspect Reggie is correct when he wrote 'my chances ... must be limited'
I will apply for the 3 likely Death Certs and hope one of provides the answer
Michael
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