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Julia
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26 Apr 2013 12:38 |
Ah, ok Shirley - no worries, thanks for checking further. Very kind. Ok - so I think I am set on a Bideford/Torrington birth in 1851. I'm only in Exeter myself, so will take a trip up to N Devon to investigate this further I think. Thanks
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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26 Apr 2013 12:35 |
Your last post Julie crossed with my edit . seems not to be your Grace Sanders I,m afraid
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Julia
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26 Apr 2013 12:32 |
Thanks to everyone for their quick replies to this. All very useful. I had picked up some of the census info, but there's a lot of extra info here that I didn't know.
I also knew that Grace's children - especially Charles - called himself Hole. His birth certificate states no father and his name as Charlie Sanders. His marriage certificate states that his name is Charles Sanders Coles and his father as Francis Coles. So the family appear to be mixed up with their information. I understand that Samuel Coles (who Grace once lived with) died three years before Charles was born, so wouldn't be his father, so why give himself that name. My maiden name is Coles, so the name was obviously carried forward. It's all very intriguing.
I suppose they were not educated enough to know a lot of the detail, and as Shirley says - if they moved when Grace was a baby, that might be all she knows. It's certainly worth following up.
Grace is a complex, scatty character I think, and I love her to bits already!
Thanks all :-D
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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26 Apr 2013 12:04 |
Note mum is a seamans wife
1851 census transcription details for: Silver Stret, Saltish
RG number: HO107 Piece: 1900 Folio: 472 Page: 76 Reg. District: St Germans Sub District: W S Ponter Saltash Parish: Enum. District: 4 Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Saltish Address: Silver Stret, Saltish County: Cornwall Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born SANDERS, Jane Head Married F 35 1816 Seamans Wife Saltash, Cornwall SANDERS, Susan Daughter Unmarried F 9 1842 Scholar Saltash, Cornwall SANDERS, Mary J Daughter Unmarried F 5 1846 Scholar Saltash, Cornwall SANDERS, Abraham Son Unmarried M 1 1850 Saltash, Cornwall SANDERS, Grace S Daughter Unmarried F 0 (3 MOS) 1851 Saltash, Cornwall
Wonder if the family later moved to Devon so she thought that was where she was born
Edit wrong family as they are still in Cornwall on later census and hubby was James a Greenwich pensioner
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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26 Apr 2013 11:57 |
?
Civil Registration event: Birth
PrintClose Name: SANDERS, Grace Registration district: Torrington County: Devon Year of registration: 1852 Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3 Volume no: 5B Page nos 488
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Fredk
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26 Apr 2013 11:56 |
1891 Census Household Record Household Information Address 18, Preston Street Parish Exeter District Exeter, Exeter Eastern Administrative County Devonshire Householder 1 Name Francis Hole Age 30 Estimated Year of Birth 1861 Relationship to Head of Household Head Occupation Masons Labourer Birth Place Exeter Birth County Devonshire Householder 2 Name Grace Hole Age 40 Estimated Year of Birth 1851 Relationship to Head of Household Wife Occupation Manglewoman Birth Place Bideford Birth County Devonshire Householder 3 Name Eliza Hole Age 8 Estimated Year of Birth 1883 Relationship to Head of Household Daughter Occupation Scholar Birth Place Exeter Birth County Devonshire Householder 4 Name Charles Hole Age 6 Estimated Year of Birth 1885 Relationship to Head of Household Son Occupation Scholar Birth Place Exeter Birth County Devonshire Householder 5 Name Maud Hole Age 3 Estimated Year of Birth 1888 Relationship to Head of Household Daughter Occupation Scholar Birth Place Exeter Birth County Devonshire
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Potty
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26 Apr 2013 11:55 |
She seems to be consistent with her age and POB on all the censuses but no birth coming up for her in Devon. This is the only Grace with a father Samuel that I can find but he is a bricklayer:
1851 England Census about Grace Sanders Name: Grace Sanders Age: 5 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1846 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Samuel Sanders Mother's Name: Agnes Sanders Gender: F (Female) Where born: Biddiford, Devon, England Civil parish: Pilkington Ecclesiastical parish: Stand County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View image Registration district: Bury Sub-registration district: Radcliffe ED, institution, or vessel: 1g Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 76 Piece: 2216 Folio: 414 Page Number: 21 Household Members: Name Age Samuel Sanders 30 Agnes Sanders 32 William Sanders 10 Samuel Sanders 8 Grace Sanders 5 Henry Sanders 3
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Fredk
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26 Apr 2013 11:52 |
1911 Census Household Record Household information Address 1 Artizans Dwellings Rack St Exeter Parish Exeter Town Exeter Type of Building Private House Number of Rooms 5 Inhabited Y Reference RG14PN12684 RG78PN728 RD271 SD1 ED16 SN216 Administrative County Devonshire Registration District Exeter Registration Sub District Exeter Enumeration District 16 Householder 1 Name Francis Hole Relationship to Head of Household Head Condition / Years Married Married Gender M Age 51 Estimated Year of Birth 1860 Occupation Report Letter Employed Y Working at Home N Industry Gas Company Place of Birth Exeter Devon Householder 2 Name Grace Hole Relationship to Head of Household Wife Condition / Years Married Married / 24 Years Total Children Born Alive 4 Children Still Living 4 Gender F Age 60 Estimated Year of Birth 1851 Employed N Working at Home N Place of Birth Mideford Devon Householder 3 Name Maud Hole Relationship to Head of Household Daughter Condition / Years Married Single Gender F Age 22 Estimated Year of Birth 1889 Occupation Laundress Employed Y Working at Home N Industry Steam Laundry Place of Birth Exeter Devon
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ErikaH
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26 Apr 2013 11:52 |
As there were no penalties for not registering births until 1875, your best bet is to look for a baptism
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Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it
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26 Apr 2013 11:52 |
It may be her birth wasn,t registered there were no penalties before 1875 for non reg.
Try FamilySearch site for a possible baptism
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AnnCardiff
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26 Apr 2013 11:43 |
Name: Grace Saunders Event Type: Census Event Date: 1871 Gender: Female Age: 20 Relationship to Head of Household: Lodger Birthplace: Barnstaple, Devonshire Schedule Type: Household Registration District: Exeter Sub-District: St David Parish: St George County: Devonshire Household Gender Age Birthplace Self Samuel Coles M 20 Exeter, Devonshire Lodger Grace Saunders F 20 Barnstaple, Devonshire
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Julia
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26 Apr 2013 11:35 |
My 2xG Grandmother Grace Sanders was born in Barnstaple/Bideford in, I think 1850/51. She moved to Exeter and was living with a Samuel Coles around 1878, but married a Frank Hole in 1888. She gave birth to a son, Charlie in 1885, illegitimately, but later gave birth to Maud Hole with Frank as the father. Grace has been found in some Exeter newspapers as being a 'woman of loose character' and has been drunk and disorderly along with Samuel Coles.
Her age isn't quite confirmed (she was 10 years older than Frank) so I'm not sure if 1850/51 is correct. But I'm unsure how to find her birth in North Devon. there are a few Grace Sanders, but I would really like to get further back. Her marriage certificate states her father was a seaman and was called Samuel Sanders. But I can't find him either.
Does anyone have any advice of how I can find more about Grace's parentage and earlier life in N. Devon? Probably a visit to the records office, but I'm unsure what I'm looking for!
Thank you. Julia
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