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Wendy
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23 Apr 2013 11:39 |
Hi MarieCeleste,
Sydney Hales was my husband's father.
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MarieCeleste
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22 Apr 2013 07:46 |
Hi Wendy, which of William and Louisa's children is your direct line?
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Wendy
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22 Apr 2013 05:03 |
Thank you all so much for your help. I am hoping to find the identity of the young William Hales but I do know that in later life he was definitely married to Louisa Woodman and had several children.We also have photos of him driving a vehicle, so he was a car man for sure. I have also looked for a possible twin brother (Henry) but cannot identify him at all. Maybe he died young. We have not been able to find a birth certificate for William either, so maybe he was never registered.
Wendy
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Cynthia
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21 Apr 2013 15:28 |
New poster - friendly message on how to return to thread sent. :-)
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MarieCeleste
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20 Apr 2013 15:06 |
Still can't find William in 1891. I did find the address he gave when married, it was 68 Maxted Road but he's not there in 1891.
I'll leave for now the info I posted which appears to be another William and Louisa Hales, just in case.
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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20 Apr 2013 11:55 |
I couldn't make out the occupation for sure but (oil trade) suggested carman!!
But I still can't find him in 1891 - only 1891 I can find is as a crewman on (what I presume) is a barge on the Thames
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MarieCeleste
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20 Apr 2013 11:38 |
William's occupation on that 1901 is carman (oil trade) which certainly matches the marriage.
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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20 Apr 2013 11:32 |
This is the correspondng 1901 in Wendy's tree
Name: William Hales [William Hales nee Woodman] Age: 31 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Louisa Hales Gender: Male Where born: Clapham, London, England Civil parish: Camberwell Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints Blenheim Grove County/Island: London Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View image Registration district: Camberwell Sub-registration district: Peckham ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 192 Piece: 504 Folio: 23 Page Number: 33 Household Members: Name Age William Hales 31 Louisa Hales 20 Rosey Hales 7 William Hales 3 Maud Woodman 20 Emily Akhurst 18
They married in 1892 but she doesn't have Martha, William or Henry in 1891 (and I can't find him either)
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MarieCeleste
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20 Apr 2013 11:30 |
That's interesting Jude. On the original of that 1911 he's a night HORSE keeper, which ties in with ostler, carman, and horsekeeper (other census and marriage record).
He could have been double counted in 1911 if staying overnight at sisters.
However, the children don't tie up to the 1901 so I could be off at a complete tangent.
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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20 Apr 2013 11:17 |
This is the 1911 Wendy has in her tree
Name: William Hales Age in 1911: 42 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Male Birth Place: London, United Kingdom Civil parish: Camberwell County/Island: London Country: England Street Address: 15 Ophir Terrace, Basing Road, Peckham SE Marital Status: Married Occupation: NIGHT HOUSE KEEPER Registration district: Camberwell Registration District Number: 27 Sub-registration district: Peckham South ED, institution, or vessel: 1 Piece: 2571 Household Members: Name Age William Hales 42 Louisa Hales 38 Rosey Hales 17 Willie Hales 12 Freddie Hales 7 Siddie Hales 4 Lilley Parks 22
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MarieCeleste
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20 Apr 2013 11:06 |
Is this the correct William in 1911?
O BRIEN, Henry Head Married28 years M 52 1859 Painter Holton London O BRIEN, Emily Wife Married F 49 1862 Holloway N O BRIEN, Emily Ellen Daughter Single F 24 1887 Metal Polisher Hackney O BRIEN, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 18 1893 Machinist Holloway London O BRIEN, Amelia Daughter Single F 16 1895 Syhons Works Holloway London O BRIEN, Ruben Son M 13 1898 School Islington N O BRIEN, Frederick Son M 11 1900 School Islington N HALES, William Brother To Wife Married M 39 1872 Horse Keeper Out Of Work Holloway
RG number: RG14 Piece: 946 Reference: RG14PN946 RG78PN32 RD10 SD6 ED44 SN135 Registration District: Islington Sub District: Islington South East Enumeration District: 44 Parish: Islington
Address: 54 Cornwall Cottages Popham St Islington N County: London ....................................................................................................................
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 Name: Emily Hales Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861 Age: 22 Spouse Name: Henry Obrien Spouse Age: 24 Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 30 Oct 1883 Parish: Shoreditch St Mark Borough: Hackney Father Name: William James Hales - cabinet maker Spouse Father Name: Harry Obrien Register Type: Parish Register
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MarieCeleste
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20 Apr 2013 10:56 |
This is that family in 1861, note eldest child is Martha:
HALES, James Head Married M 36 1825 Labourer Islington HALES, Sarah Wife Married F 31 1830 Cambridgeshire HALES, Martha Daughter F 6 1855 Scholar Islington HALES, Mary A Daughter F 5 1856 Scholar Islington HALES, Elizabeth S Daughter F 2 1859 Scholar Islington POTTER, Eliza Visitor Unmarried F 30 1831 Servant Islington
Piece: 136 Folio: 69 Page: 65 Registration District: Islington Civil Parish: Islington
Address: 41, Upper Victoria Road, Islington County: London ...............................................................................................................
When Martha marries she gives father's full name:
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Martha Rhoda Hales Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854 Age: 27 Spouse Name: James Ballard Spouse Age: 35 Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 17 Jul 1881 Parish: Islington St Thomas Borough: Islington Father Name: William James Hales - cabinet maker Spouse Father Name: David Ballard Register Type: Parish Register
Doesn't say he's deceased but depends if the question was asked.
Address is 29 Hollingsworth Street, as per the 1891 above.
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MarieCeleste
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20 Apr 2013 10:51 |
I think this is the marriage of the Sarah on the 1891:
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Sarah Hopwood Spouse Name: James Hale - carpenter Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 15 May 1853 Parish: Canonbury St Paul Borough: Islington Father Name: William Hopwood Spouse Father Name: William James Hale Register Type: Parish Register
Can't say if it's right or not, but a tree on Ancestry has this attached to James WILLIAM Hale, who died in 1872.
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MarieCeleste
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20 Apr 2013 10:41 |
I may be wrong, but this 1891 is a possible. His occupation matches the 1901 and birthplace of Barnsbury is in the borough of Islington:
HALES, Sarah Head Widow F 62 1829 Shepreth, Cambridgeshire HALES, William Son Single M 19 1872 Horse Keeper Barnsbury, London PRESTON, George Boarder M 6 1885 Scholar Barnsbury, London JENKIN, Samuel Boarder Single M 25 1866 Sack Maker Barnsbury, London
Piece: 161 Folio: 143 Page: 36 Registration District: Islington Civil Parish: Islington
Address: 29, Hollingworth Street, Islington, London County: London
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MarieCeleste
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20 Apr 2013 10:32 |
Given his birthplace on census I'm wondering about this registration:
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: William James Hales Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1871 Registration district: Islington Inferred County: London Volume: 1b Page: 265
That would tie in with being 29 in 1891. BUT, there isn't a corresponding birth for a Henry. However, do we know for definite that the family is the right one?
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MarieCeleste
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20 Apr 2013 10:16 |
The middle initial on the 1901 could tie in with the births Sylvia posted:
HALES, William J Head Married M 29 1872 Ostler Islington, London HALES, Louisa Wife Married F 28 1873 Islington, London HALES, Louisa Daughter F 10 1891 Islington, London HALES, Beatrice A Daughter F 8 1893 Islington, London HALES, William J Son M 6 1895 Islington, London HALES, Martha Daughter F 4 1897 Islington, London
Piece: 201 Folio: 71 Page: 36 Registration District: Islington Civil Parish: Islington
Address: 43, Brand Street, Islington County: London
Youngest daughter could be named for his mother.
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MarieCeleste
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20 Apr 2013 10:03 |
William's name mistranscribed on marriage:
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: Louisa Woodman, of 19 Wingfield Street Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873 Age: 19 Spouse Name: William Holes, a carman of 68 Marsted? Road Spouse Age: 20 Record Type: Marriage Event Date: 25 Dec 1892 Parish: Walworth Common Borough: Southwark Father Name: Thomas Woodman - Deceased Spouse Father Name: William Holes - Deceased Register Type: Parish Register
Neither married before.
Witnesses: Samuel George Sudlow and Emma Frances Eagles?
EDIT: a Samuel George Sudlow married an Ada Alice Woodman in 1888 so was a brother-in-law. Have found an Emma Frances Eagles but not established a relationship to bride or groom yet (was hoping it might provide a link).
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SylviaInCanada
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20 Apr 2013 05:42 |
???
Martha and Samuel, 1861 Census
Name Age Samuel Hales 27 Martha Hales 26 Samuel Hales 3 Frederick C Hales 1
1871 Census
Name Age Martha Hales 36 Widow Samuel Hales 13 Frederick Hales 11 Benjamin Hales 8 Joseph Hales 5 Charles Clapperton 68 Boarder
1881 Census
Name Age Martha Hales 46 Benjamin Hales 18 William Hales 8 b.ca 1873, Lambeth, Surrey Henry Hales 8 b.ca 1873, Lambeth, Surrey
This birth registration has me wondering ..................
Births Sep 1873 (>99%)
Hales George Wandsworth 1d 540 Hales William James Wandsworth 1d 540
IF the brother Henry was given the name George on registration, but that was replaced by Henry at baptism, or Henry was added as a second name ???????????????
These are the only two Hales that I can find registered in the same quarter in the same place in London that seem to possibly fit the requirements!
sylvia
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SylviaInCanada
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20 Apr 2013 05:06 |
Just playing around, to see if I can find anything
I assume this is the marriage of Martha Fisher to Samuel Hales .............
Marriages Dec 1856 (>99%)
Fisher Martha St Saviour 1d 2 Hales Samuel St Saviour S 1d 2
from familysearch ................
Samuel Hales, "England, Marriages, 1538–1973 "
Name: Samuel Hales Birth Date: 1834 Birthplace: Age: 22 Spouse's Name: Martha Fisher Spouse's Birth Date: 1835 Spouse's Birthplace: Spouse's Age: 21 Event Date: 13 Oct 1856 Event Place: Christ Church,Southwark,London,England Father's Name: Mother's Name: Spouse's Father's Name: Spouse's Mother's Name: Race: Marital Status: Previous Wife's Name: Spouse's Race: Spouse's Marital Status: Spouse's Previous Husband's Name: Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M02070-1 System Origin: England-ODM GS Film number: 384912, 384913, 384914, 384915, 6026046 Reference ID: Sources
Citing this Record
"England, Marriages, 1538–1973 ," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2P3-VPX : accessed 20 Apr 2013), Samuel Hales and Martha Fisher, 13 Oct 1856.
sylvia
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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19 Apr 2013 06:52 |
Wendy has this death in her tree on Ancestry
Deaths Sep 1865 (>99%) Hales Samuel Wandsworth 1d 284
As Sylvia says - your real name IS Hales because that is what William's name was (even if his father was not a Hales)
Jude
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