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Fredk
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24 Mar 2013 10:38 |
Thank to all . Passing all the information on. Will see what he intends to do .He may try for himself now
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Dea
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24 Mar 2013 10:05 |
Probably not Flip - it was just a thought about Scotland as I was getting desperate ;-) :-D
I DO believe we have the correct Elizabeth though, especially having found the 1891 with them both together on it.
Dea x
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Flip
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24 Mar 2013 10:01 |
It's a possibility Dea, but what about the sister - would they be likely to go back to Scotland for that as well?
Think Elizabeth's marriage cert is a must to see if we even have the right people here.
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Dea
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24 Mar 2013 09:56 |
Just a thought..............
Elizabeth is unmarried and on the 1891 there is no actual place of birth noted for James.
Also, James is down as the son of Elizabeth's mother - Jane ?
I know this often happens but if they were trying at that stage to 'pass him off' as Jane's - they would obviously not want people to know about the birth.
I note that there is a Scottish connection (Jane and her family) - Is it possible that Jane and Elizabeth took themselves off to family in Scotland for the birth so that they could come back and claim he was Jane's ?
Perhaps there might be a birth reg in Scotland for him?
Dea x
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Chris Ho :)
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24 Mar 2013 09:46 |
Birth Name: GILLMAN, William Registration district: [?] West Ham County: Essex Year of registration: 1890 Quarter of registration: Jan-Feb-Mar Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1911 Q3 Volume no:[?]4A Page no:[?]25
Births Mar 1890 (>99%) ? ------------------------------------------------ Gillmore William W. Ham 4a 25
(not sure of above)
Chris :)
(orf'' now folks, have a good day, see ya later)
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Flip
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24 Mar 2013 09:39 |
Well found Dea :-D
So, it looks like no father around if we've got the right Elizabeth. Still no sign of a birth registration though, even for plain James Gillman or variations on the surname.
Added - no birth for sister either. The only possibility was in Whitehaven, but she is still there in 1901 so can be eliminated.
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Dea
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24 Mar 2013 09:25 |
AT LAST !!!
1891 census transcription details for: 7, Poplar Street, Canning Town, West Ham Print Close
National Archive Reference: RG number: RG12 Piece: 1319 Folio: 85 Page: 22 Reg. District: West Ham Sub District: West Ham Parish: Canning Town Enum. District: 16 Ecclesiastical District: St Lukes City/Municipal Borough: West Ham Address: 7, Poplar Street, Canning Town, West Ham County: Essex Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born GILLEN, Jane Head Widow F 47 1844 Charwoman Scotland GILLEN, Wm Son Single M 25 1866 ****GILLEN, Ely Daughter Single F 23 1868 Servant West Ham GILLEN, Wm Son Single M 17 1874 Labourer West Ham GILLEN, Agnes Daughter Single F 15 1876 Needle Girl West Ham GILLEN, Jane Daughter Single F 13 1878 West Ham ****GILLEN, James Son Single M 1 (12M) 1890
Dea x
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DIZZI
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24 Mar 2013 09:25 |
WAS JAMES MOTHER MARRIED WHEN HE WAS BORN CANT FIND HIM :-)
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Dea
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24 Mar 2013 09:21 |
Looks like that cert is a 'must have'
Dea x
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Flip
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24 Mar 2013 09:15 |
Problem is he may not have known father's name.
Wonder if the marriage between William Angell/Elizabeth Gillman would reveal her fathers name so we could look under her maiden name for a birth or previous marriage. She may not have been married as there's this one of the right age, right area (but no luck finding them in 1891 yet):
Elizabeth Gillman Age: 12 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: William Gillman Mother's name: Jane Gillman Gender: Female Where born: West Ham, Essex, England Civil parish: West Ham County/Island: Essex Country: England Street Address: 51 Hemsworth Street Education:
Employment status: View image Registration district: West Ham Sub-registration district: West Ham ED, institution, or vessel: 13a Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 1713 Folio: 39 Page Number: 55 Household Members: Name Age William Gillman 45 Jane Gillman 37 Charles Gillman 15 Elizabeth Gillman 12 Sarah A. Gillman 10 William Gillman 7 Agnes Gillman 5 Jane Gillman 3 Rosa Thurston 70 James Thurston 38
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Fredk
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24 Mar 2013 09:09 |
Chris Ho :)
Could well be
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Fredk
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24 Mar 2013 09:03 |
No not at the moment Just the entry 1914 Dec Qtr West Ham 4a 362. May have to get it
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Flip
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24 Mar 2013 08:56 |
Do you have the 1914 marriage certificate for his fathers name?
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Flip
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24 Mar 2013 08:53 |
Strange, but no birth I can see for him or his sister Mary Ann, at least not under the name Gillman.
Wonder if they were registered under another name and assumed Gillman if the mother re-married after their births??
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Fredk
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24 Mar 2013 08:40 |
DIZZI
Thanks for that . Downloaded and printed for my friend
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Chris Ho :)
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24 Mar 2013 08:40 |
1911 BROWN, Charlotte Head Widow F 59 1852 Own Housework Bham County Warwick DREW, Charles Son Single M 38 1873 Comedien Bham County Warwick HUNT, Walter Boarder Single M 32 1879 Brassfounder Bham County Warwick WILDEN, Mary E Boarder Married F 40 1871 Lacquerer Buckinghamshire WESTON, Henry Boarder Single M 33 1878 Assisting In Business Bham County Warwick ANGEL, William Boarder Single M 20 1891 Fitter London Essex RG number: RG14 Piece: 18058 Reference: RG14PN18058 RG78PN1096 RD384 SD2 ED26 SN43 Registration District: Birmingham Sub District: All Saints Enumeration District: 26 Parish: Birmingham Address: 183 New John Street West Birmingham County: Warwickshire
(not sure if William from 1901 above, his name is written and crossed through on 1911 image)
Chris :)
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DIZZI
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24 Mar 2013 08:30 |
SENT IMAGE :-\
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Fredk
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24 Mar 2013 08:27 |
Thanks As change of name and listed as son Looks like William adopted him and his sister. Still need his birth
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DIZZI
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24 Mar 2013 08:22 |
about James Angel Name: James Angel Age in 1911: 21 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890 Relation to Head: Son Gender: Male Birth Place: Canning Town, Essex Civil parish: West Ham County/Island: Essex Country: England Street Address: 58 Jersey Road, Custom House Marital Status: Single Occupation: Labourer Docks Registration district: West Ham Registration District Number: 188 Sub-registration district: Canning Town ED, institution, or vessel: 17 Household schedule number: 122 Piece: 9487 Household Members: Name Age William Angel 45 Elizabeth Angel 44 James Angel 21 Mary Angel 17 Louisa Angel 10 John Angel 5 Nellie Angel 3
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Chris Ho :)
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24 Mar 2013 08:11 |
1901 (reference) ANGELL, William Head Married M 41 1860 Tank Rivetter West Ham Canning Town ANGELL, Elizabeth Wife Married F 32 1869 West Ham Canning Town GILLMAN, James Step Son M 11 1890 West Ham Canning Town ANGELL, William Son M 9 1892 West Ham Canning Town GILLMAN, Mary Ann Step Daughter F 7 1894 West Ham Canning Town RATTENBURY, Edward Boarder Widower M 71 1830 Devonshire Piece: 1582 Folio: 109 Page: 3 Registration District: West Ham Civil Parish: West Ham Municipal Borough: Address: 20, George Street, West Ham County: Essex
Chris :)
Marriages Jun 1900 (>99%) ---------------------------------------------------- Angell William W. Ham 4a 325 Gillman Elizabeth W. Ham 4a 325
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