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Archibald Thomson (my ggrandfather) married my ggrandmother Eliza Dingwall at Hokitika, West Coast, NZ, on 18/08/1878. On the marriage certificate it states that he is a widower. I have a copy of the 1851 Scots census that shows him living in Dalry with his sister Janet and brother in law James Drummond. However, I have not been able to find anything about when he left Scotland, where he travelled to, or who he married and where they married.
Has anyone any knowledge or ideas that could help me.
Thanks
Joanna

Scotlands people website should have the marriage.........if it took place in Scotland

FMP's migration records don't start until 1890.........

Joanna,
Looking at the 1851 census, Archibald was a coal miner.
It is quite possible that his immigration was connected to a presbyterian church who assisted in the passage.

I have family who were miners and also immigrated to West Coast, NZ in this time period, their christian role in NZ was to set up a Presbyterian Sunday School.


However, there is an Archibald Thomson listed on Electoral Rolls in Hokitika 1875-1876.
This man lived at Chapel Terrace, Stafford.
He appears again in 1880-1881 at Greeks Gully, Hotikita, Stafford and is a miner

If this is the same man, it places him in NZ at 1875
.
I thought I if I searched the BDM historical records for children born to Archibald Thomson and Eliza, I could find them on Electoral rolls and possibly identify any children who were not born into this marriage.
I found no children born to Archibald THOMSON and Eliza at all.
There are births for Archibald THOMPSON and Eliza in the correct time period .. is this the family?
Children: Robert William, Lillie, Janet, Daisy and Clara?


Anne

Anne

For Info
1851 census transcription details for: Vennal Street, Dalry (Ayr), Dalry

National Archive Reference:
RG number:
Piece: 587
Folio: 317
Page: 17
Reg. District:
Sub District:
Parish: Dalry (Ayr)
Enum. District: 17
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Vennal Street, Dalry (Ayr), Dalry
County: Ayrshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
DRUMMOND, James Head Married M 24 1827 Cooper & Lath Splitter Master Employing 1 Man
Dalry, Ayrshire
DRUMMOND, Janet Wife Married F 24 1827 Saltcoats, Ayrshire
DRUMMOND, James Son M 1 1850 Dalry, Ayrshire
THOMSON, Archibald Brother-In-Law M 14 1837 Coal Drawer Saltcoats, Ayrshire
MACKIE, John Lodger Widower M 20 1831 Cooper Dalry, Ayrshire

Joanna,
Where did the dob for Archibald Thomson come from and what were his parents names?
SP has only one Ayrshire baptism for a child of this name in 1836.

The record is from Sorn Ayrshire dated 10 Feb 1836 and the child's parents were Alexander Thomson and Sarah Steel


Unless I am looking at the wroing family, this appears to be both Janet and her brother Archibald with their parents in 1841.
It appears to be the family of Adam Thomson and Janet McMillan who marriedin Ardrossan in 1822

1841 Scotland Census about Archibald Thomson
Name: Archibald Thomson
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Gender: Male
Where born: Ayrshire, Scotland
Civil parish: Ardrossan
County: Ayrshire
Address: Windmill Street
Parish Number: 576
Household Members:
Name Age
Adam Thomson 35
Janet Thomson 35
James Thomson 17
Janet Thomson 15 ***
Elizabeth Thomson 13
Alexander Thomson 11
John Thomson 9
Adam Thomson 7
Archibald Thomson 4 ***
David Thomson 1
Andrew Dalzel 25

Also by checking on Family search, Janet married James Drummond in 1846, her 2nd son was called Adam Drummond which is in keeping with the traditional naming pattern and above census return?

A search on SP index for Thomson, Archibald married to "Drummond" produced no returns. Drummond (BIL) may not be the first wife's name however.

Search for marriages for his name, all Scotland 1842 - 1851 gave 23 results just one in Ayr...to Elisabeth Dunlop 1/12/1848. HIs first marriage could of course have been earlier.

More detailed study in SP might produce results.

Malcolm, I think that it was Archibald's sister Janet who married the Drummond.

Sorry Malcolm,
Janet Thomson ( sister of Archibald) married James Drummond in 1846 but we still need Joanna to confirm who Archibald's parents were.
I believe they will be detailed on his NZ marriage cert.

An 1841 census does not give relationships, and there is no guarantee that either Janet or Archibald were children of Adam Thomson and Janet McMillan.
There are in fact ony two children on SP for them, Elizabeth and John, and these ages match with the 1841 return.
As the couple were married in 1822, I fully expect that there were other older children.

Thank you to all who replied to my request for help.

Anne, Archibald's dob is etched on his gravestone. I presume the family got it right! He died in 1919 in Wellington, NZ. His children with Eliza were Robert William, Janet, Clara, Daisy and Lillie (my grandmother).

Adam and Janet Thomson were his parents and the 1841 census shows they had seven other children. However, after the census in 1841 they all seemed to disappear into thin air apart from Archibald who was living with his sister and brother in law in Dalry at the time of the 1851 census. After this he too disappeared until I find him marrying Eliza in 1878 here in NZ. There's 27 years of his life missing! All I can think of is that the family emigrated to Canada, America or elsewhere but somewhere along the line Archibald must have been in Australia because Eliza who was married to Richard Dingwall knew him well enough to sail here and marry him. I wonder if he followed the gold rushes to the USA, Canada, Victoria (Australia) and then here to NZ.

I would just love to fill in those missing years.

Thanks again for your replies.

Joanna

you posted .............

"Archibald's dob is etched on his gravestone. I presume the family got it right!"


Never, ever "presume" anything in this annoying, yet enthralling, hobby that we are all so involved with!!


Family only ever knows what the deceased has told them ....................

and our ancestors told many porkies.

People did lie about their ages, birth years, birth places, even parents ............. sometimes deliberately (eg, wanting to seem to be younger/older), sometimes accidentally because they literally did not know any different.


As an example, we always celebrated my grandfather's birthday on Christmas Day, and understood that he had been born on Dec 25 1884.


NO .........

................... after his death, my uncle found a birth certificate that showed grandfather was born on January 9 1885.

All we could figure is that his parents were so poor that they did not want to buy a birthday present so soon after Christmas .............. so they told him that he was born on Christmas Day, and gave him only one gift.


So, don't take any information from that gravestone as definitive.




sylvia

Yes, this family simply vanished and so did his sister Janet Drummond.
After the 1851 census, Janet and James Drummond moved to Glasgow.
Janet appears only in 1861, but in 1871 there is a 2yr old child.
I presumed that Janet must have died between 1868 and 1871.

Janet's last recorded child on Family Search was born in 1864

Even after widening my search, I cannot locate any death between 1864 and 1881 for Janet Drummond ms Thomson/Thompson

1861 Scotland Census about James Drummond
Name: James Drummond
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Janet Drummond
Gender: Male
Where born: Dalry, Ayrshire
Registration number: 644/9
Registration district: Tradeston
Civil parish: Glasgow Govan
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 4 Newfield Lane
Occupation: Lathsplitter
ED: 79
Household schedule number: 33
Line: 10
Roll: CSSCT1861_111
Household Members:
Name Age
James Drummond 33
Janet Drummond 33
James Drummond 10
Alexander Drummond 5
Janet Drummond 2

1871 Scotland Census about James Drummond
Name: James Drummond
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Relationship: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Dahy, Ayrshire
Registration number: 644/9
Registration district: Tradeston
Civil parish: Glasgow Govan
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 56 Gloucester St
Occupation: Lath Aplitter (jour)
ED: 70
Household schedule number: 104
Line: 13
Roll: CSSCT1871_140
Household Members:
Name Age
James Drummond 43
James Drummond 22
Alexander Drummond 15
Janet Drummond 13
Robert Drummond 11
James Drummond 6
Mary Drummond 2
Agnes Brown 25 housekeeper

Also, parents Adam and Janet
I am also presuming that this was Adam Thomson and Janet McMillan.
There was another Ayrshire couple with the same names. an of a similar age living in Ayrshire. As they can be located in New Cuimnock throughout census years, they can be kept separate from Archibald's family.

I don't doubt his dob, he was either unbaptized or the record is lost,.

Janet Drummond, nee Thomson born 1826 in Saltcoats, Ayrshire died on 14/05/1865 at 75 Cathcart Street, Glasgow. Cause of death: convulsions.

Janet was my Gx3 grandmother.

You have added to an eight-year-old thread. Unlikely that Joanna will be expecting replies now.

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