Profile | Posted by | Options | Post Date |
|
Robert
|
Report
|
13 Aug 2014 20:13 |
From Bob
Hope these facts help.
When Joseph Beloudy (1740 - 1805) married Anna Gilfoy on 11th or 16th Sept 1770 he had to pay a £200 bond, a considerable amount even in those days!! This was probably because Anna was a minor - he was 29/30 at the time - and he had to pay to show good faith and testify that he wasn't already married. In other words she must have been at least 10 maybe 12 years younger than him at marriage.
Therefore it is entirely probable that Mary Ann Beloudy b.1795 (married Thomas Wallace Prosser in 1812) was the daughter of Joseph and Anna, who would have been 43/45 in 1795 and still of child-bearing age.
Also Joseph had another daughter Elizabeth b.1786 who married Edward Ryan on 6th July 1800. She was pregnant by Ryan, who had been taken on by Beloudy in 1796 - indentured 15th April 1796 - as an apprentice. In February 1800 Beloudy legally rescinded the apprenticeship because of Ryan's infidelity with his 14 year old daughter and tried to end their relationship believing Ryan incapable of maintaining Elizabeth financially. Despite his opposition Elizabeth and Edward still married 5 months later.
|
|
Chris Ho :)
|
Report
|
10 Oct 2012 10:31 |
Yes, would also think the 1758 one...
(wonder if the Will would give the odd answer. lol)
Chris :)
|
|
Cherilyn
|
Report
|
10 Oct 2012 04:05 |
Hmm so that is the Clerkenwell one... I am thinking the one born c1740 might have been too old to be Mary's father and perhaps he is more likely the other one b. c1758...very confusing!
|
|
Chris Ho :)
|
Report
|
9 Oct 2012 09:22 |
a google search of beloudy collier street, brings up a few items. (does look like Collier Street on Burial image)
UK, Register of Duties Paid for Apprentices' Indentures, 1710-1811 about Josh Beloudy Master's Name: Josh Beloudy Apprentice Name: Edwd Ryan (who married Elizabeth Beloudy, perhaps!) Residence Location: Clerkenwell Payment Date: 15 Apr 1796 Master's Name: Jos Beloudy Apprentice Name: M A J Mitchel Residence Location: St John Clerkenwell, Middlesex Payment Date: 5 Aug 1785
Chris :)
edits (another Daughter)
Pallot's Marriage Index for England: 1780 - 1837 about Cathe Beloudy Name: Cathe Beloudy Spouse: Wm Langshaw Marriage Date: 1796 Parish: St. Pancras
|
|
Cherilyn
|
Report
|
9 Oct 2012 08:47 |
Thanks Chris! Good spotting on that 1805 burial. Makes him born c1740.
It looks like the one who died in 1838 is the one born Germany c1758 so might need to get the 1805 will to work out who was the one with the daughters!
|
|
Chris Ho :)
|
Report
|
9 Oct 2012 08:03 |
London, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812 Name: Joseph Belandy Burial Date: Feb 3rd 1805 Parish: St James, Pentonville County: Middlesex Borough: Islington Record Type: Burial Register Type: Parish Register (64yrs)
(wonder if this is the 1805 one)
Chris :)
|
|
Chris Ho :)
|
Report
|
9 Oct 2012 07:31 |
Burial Surname:Beloudy Forenames:Joseph Supplied Forename:Jos Year of burial:1838 Age at death:79 Place:Westminster Dedication:St Paul Covent Garden County:Middlesex Record source:Boyd's London Burials 1538-1872
(the above on Find My Past)
Chris :)
(also below Marriages)
Groom's First names:John Groom's surname:Green Groom's parish:St Martin In The Fields Groom's Age: Marriage year:1799 Marriage month:Sep Marriage day:10 Parish:St Martin In The Fields County:Middlesex Bride's First names:Ann Bride's surname:Beloudy Bride's parish:St Martin In The Fields Bride's Age: Data provider:Westminster Archives
Groom's First names:Edward Groom's surname:Rein Groom's parish:Saint Anne Groom's Age: Marriage year:1800 Marriage month:Jul Marriage day:06 Parish:St Anne, Soho County:Middlesex Bride's First names:Elizabeth Bride's surname:Beloudy Bride's parish:Saint Anne Bride's Age Data provider:Westminster Archives
|
|
Cherilyn
|
Report
|
9 Oct 2012 04:54 |
Just to clarify, did Joseph Beloudy die in 1805 (date of will) or 1838?
|
|
Cherilyn
|
Report
|
9 Oct 2012 03:44 |
Awesome! :) thanks Quoy and Kucinta.
Looks like the other children may be correct then.
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
8 Oct 2012 17:01 |
You can buy and view online the 1805 will Quoy found for Joseph Beloudy at The National Archives site for £3.36:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/details/D368106?descriptiontype=Full&ref=PROB+11/1420/99
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
8 Oct 2012 16:19 |
No idea if this is relevant, but Joseph was an organ builder and the marriage bond was for £200 . Ann was a minor, and her father Cornelius Gylfoy was a salesman:
London and Surrey, England, Marriage Bonds and Allegations, 1597-1921
Name: Joseph Beloudy Event Date: 11 Sep 1770 Parish: St Giles In The Fields County: Middlesex Spouse's Name: Ann Gytfory Event Type: Bond Reference Number: DL/A/D/24/MS 10091E/83
Looks like Gylfoy on the document
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
8 Oct 2012 15:47 |
Pallot's Baptism Index for England: 1780 - 1837
Name: Helen Henrietta Prosser Baptism Date: 1827 Parent 1: Thos Prosser Parent 2: MaryProsser Parish: St. Pancras County: Middlesex
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
8 Oct 2012 15:46 |
Pallot's Baptism Index for England: 1780 - 1837
Name: Maria Prosser Baptism Date: 1816 Parent 1: Thos Prosser Parent 2: MaryProsser Parish: St. Pancras County: Middlesex
|
|
Quoy
|
Report
|
8 Oct 2012 10:47 |
Thought you might like this from a tree on Ancestry Mary Ann Beloudy daughter of Joseph Beloudy born 1758 Bayern, Germany died 1838 london ,
The Morning Chronicle (London, England), Wednesday, October 27, 1819;
for auction a Beloudy street Organ
but then I found this Will of Joseph Beloudy, Organ Builder of Pentonville , Middlesex 18 February 1805
Joseph Beloudy, who is recorded at Lekin Lane, Drury Lane in 1784
Joseph Beloudy or Bellondie of Clerkenwell. (ref. 34) Both Beloudy and King feature in lists of British organ-builders.
|
|
Cherilyn
|
Report
|
8 Oct 2012 03:33 |
Thanks Christina, Londonbelle and Kucinta! :-) :-) :-)
This adds some credence to my dates for TW snr and Mary Ann.
The confusing part is that TW jnr married a Marianne!
It does seem he and his eldest 2 children (Ellen, I had her in my tree b. c1851, estimated from her age at death, and Wallace, ditto for c1854) were baptised on the same day.
I guess this means it is likely his siblings were not baptised either :-(
So we only have eldest Robert chr. 1813, and then a BIG gap to Thomas in 1828!
It does appear Anna Margaret may be a sister; would be good to find her baptism but it may not exist!
I have just found a tree that gives the following children between Robert & Thos: Maria b/chr 1816 Sarah b 1818, chr 1821 John b/chr 1819 Emma b/chr 1820 George b/chr 1825 Helen Henrietta b/chr 1827
Can anyone see them in the records please, to verify them? I guess Anna Margaret might fit in the gap between Emma & George...
Odd that TW jnr is shown as a plasterer, later he was a 'Master Music Printer' on certs! But it does all add up. Thanks again.
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
7 Oct 2012 23:26 |
Name: Mary Ann Prosser Record Type: Death Estimated Death Date: 1878 Age: 83 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1795 Parish or Poor Law Union: Shoreditch Borough: Hackney Register Type: Parish Register
Died in the infirmary of the parish of St Leonard's Shoreditch on 22.4.78. Paralysis
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
7 Oct 2012 23:23 |
Name: Thomas Wallis Prosser Baptism Date: 29 Jan 1797 Parish: St Mary, Whitechapel County: Middlesex Borough: Tower Hamlets Parent(s): Robert, Elizabeth Record Type: Baptism Register Type: Parish Register
Born Sept 25th 1793
|
|
Kucinta
|
Report
|
7 Oct 2012 22:55 |
I wonder if Wheeler is a mistranscription of Wallace.
First names: Robert Surname: Prosser Baptism year: 1813 Baptism month: May Baptism day: 23 Parish: St Clement Danes County: Middlesex Page: 16 Birth year: - Birth month: - Birth day: - Father's First names: Thomas Wheeler Mother's First names: Mary Ann Record source: Westminster Baptisms- Transcripts Data provider: Westminster Archives
|
|
Christina(Lancashire)
|
Report
|
7 Oct 2012 19:09 |
Wonder if this is Anna Margaret with her son James in 1871....
1871 England Census Name: Hannah Stocker Age: 45 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Head Gender: Female Where born: St Clement, Middlesex, England Civil parish: St Pancras Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Magdalene County/Island: London Country: England Registration district: Pancras Sub-registration district: Regent ED, institution, or vessel: 18a Household schedule number: 86 Piece: 204 Folio: 95 Page Number: 15 Household Members: Name Age Hannah Stocker 45 .....Head.....Widow.......no occupation listed. James Stocker 8....Son.....St Pancras.
|
|
LondonBelle
|
Report
|
7 Oct 2012 18:34 |
Looks like another child of Thomas Wallace again baptized on 19 May 1854
Name: Wallace Prosser Record Type: Baptism Baptism Date: 19 May 1854 Father's Name: Thomas Wallace Prosser occ Plasterer Mother's Name: Marianne Prosser Parish or Poor Law Union: St Pancras Borough: Camden Register Type: Parish Registers Address: Tudor Place
|