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hi i'm really stuck on this one. i'm looking for any information on isaac hart. can't find a birth record only a maybe unnamed. Marriage to elizabeth ann walley 15.05.1880 apparently aged 28 (have copy) died 10.05.1896 at back croft road smallthorne (family information), staffordshire aged 51. 1871 census at camp road, norton-in-the-moors aged 30 born bilston and 1891 census croft road, smallthorne aged 42 born fenton. help really appreciated :-D :-D :-D

Who was aged 28 in 1880 - Isaac or Elizabeth

If Isaac then surely he can not be the death in 1896 age 51

There weren't any penalties for not registering births until 1875 - have you looked for a baptism?

If you have his marriage cert, you must know whether he knew his father's details..........

1881

Name: Isaac Hart
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizth. Hart
Gender: Male
Where born: Bilston, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Smallthorne
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Street Address: Camp Road
Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Coal Miner
Registration district: Leek
Sub-registration district: Norton
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2736
Folio: 68
Page Number: 45
Household Members:
Name Age
Isaac Hart 30
Elizth. Hart 20
Mary A. Walley 3
Jane Hart


1891 records his age as 42, and birthplace as Fenton

????????????

Name: Isaac Hart
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1849
Registration district: Wolverhampton
Inferred County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands
Volume: 17
Page: 360

It's the 1881 census where he is aged 30 - NOT the 1871 census:-

1881 census transcription details for: Camp Road, Norton In The Moors
Print Close
National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 2736
Book: 68
Page: 45
Reg. District: Leek
Sub District: Norton
Parish: Norton in the Moors
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Camp Road, Norton In The Moors
County: Staffordshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born

HART, Isaac Head Married M 30 1851 Coal Miner
Bilston
Staffordshire
HART, Elizth Wife Married F 20 1861 Potters Transferrer
York
WALLEY, Mary A Daughter Single F 3 1878 Scholar
Smallthorne
Staffordshire
HART, Jane Daughter Single F 0 1881
Smallthorne
Staffordshire

Kath. x

The birth that Reggie has given is the only likely one I can see. It is in the right registration district for a Bilston birth.

Kath. x

This is the death registration for the Isaac Hart who died in the June quarter 1896 .................. Leek is the registration district that includes Smallthorne

Deaths Jun 1896 (>99%)

Hart Isaac 51 Leek 6b 164




sylvia

just out of interest, the 1901 Census

1901 Census

Name: Elizabeth Heart
[Elizabeth Shaw]
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Mother's Name: Sarah Ann Shaw
Gender: Female
Where born: Ferry Fryston, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Smallthorne
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
Town: Smallthorne
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Registration district: Leek
Sub-registration district: Norton

Elizabeth Heart 43 Widow, Potter's Transferrer
Jane Heart 21 b.ca 1880, Smallthorne, Potter's Warehousewoman
Isaac Heart 16 b.ca 1885, Smallthorne, Chainmaker
John T Heart 13 b.ca 1888, Smallthorne, Chainmaker
Elizabeth Heart 10 b.ca 1891, Smallthorne, School
Betsy Heart 8 b.ca 1893, Smallthorne, School
Sarah Ann Shaw 65 b.ca 1836, Burslem, Staffordshire, Mother, Widow

Address:- 20 Church Street




Yet Elizabeth is Walley when she marries,



sylvia

Mother Sarah was widow Shaw in 1881 with a son Thomas Mansfield


George MOUNTFORD Head U Male 44 Ford Green, Stafford, England Coal Miner
Sarah A. SHAW Lodger W Female 44 Burslem, Stafford, England
Thomas W. MANSFIELD Lodgers Son U Male 14 Burslem, Stafford, England Coal Miner
Samuel M. SHAW Lodgers Son U Male 3 Smallthorne, Stafford, England

Source Information:
Dwelling 10 Back St (b)
Census Place Smallthorne, Stafford, England

-------------------------------------

So, working backwards ( may be totally wrong but ....)


Marriage Mar 1869

********Mansfield Sarah Ann - Wolstanton 6b 127
********Shaw Arthur - Wolstanton 6b 127
Stevenson Ann Wolstanton 6b 127
Windsor William Wolstanton 6b 127
----------------------------------------------------------

Marriage
Jun 1864

Beeston Hannah Wolstanton 6b 136
********MANSFIELD John - Wolstanton 6b 136
Mountford William Wolstanton 6b 136
********Whalley Sarah Ann - Wolstanton 6b 136


Was Sarah Ann single when she married Mansfield or is there another marriage to Walley ?

What was Sarah's maiden name on Elizabeth's birth certificate ?

from ancestry


West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910 about Elizabeth Ann Whalley

Name: Elizabeth Ann Whalley
Birth Date: 17 Dec 1859
Parish: Ferrybridge (Ferry Fryston), St Andrew
Baptism Date: 11 Jan 1860
Father's Name: Whalley
Mother's Name: Sarah Ann Whalley


from image

Illegitimate written under Elizabeth's name

Sarah Ann's occupation:- Potter



sylvia

and here are Elizabeth and Sarah in 1861


1861 Census

Name: Elizh Ann Whally
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Gender: Female
Where born: Ferrybridge, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Knottingley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Botolph
Town: Knottingley
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Pontefract
Sub-registration district: Knottingley

Elizabeth Hurdas 70 Head
Thomas Latham 24 Lodger
Sarah Ann Whally 24 b.ca 1837, Burslem, Staffordshire, Lodger, Warehouse Pottery
John Brown 24 Lodger
Elizh Ann Whally 1
Richard Simister 41 Lodger
Josiah Johnson 25 Lodger

Address:- Holes




although all this is not helping to find Isaac Hart ............... although I'm beginning to suspect that he may have had a change of surname also.



sylvia

hi thanks everyone yes i did mean 1881 not 1871 census. the marriage licence has no entries for either fathers. i don't know how to check adoptions for this time and have come to think that isaac may have been born illegitimate and taken another name on the 1861,1871 census'. furthermore thanks for the information on sarah i do have much of this born 1 of 5 to thomas walley and mary bourne, marriage to john mansfield 25.6.1864 child born thomas walley mansfield, next marriage to arthur shaw and co-habiting with george mountford in 1881 next child born samuel mountford shaw which could be either of the fathers. back to isaac - with only the two census' for information i cannot confirm as to where he was born bilston or fenton. with all the confusion about ages i think the birth in 1849 may be right then conclusion would be bilston for birth. i have exhausted the search as much as i could i just wondered if anyone could find something i was missing or has a connection with the families. thanks again :-)

Have you discounted the birth that Reggie found ?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1849
Hart Isaac - Wolverhampton 17 360


He possibly knocked a few years off his age as his wife was a lot younger.

Adoptions were not covered by any law until 1927 ................ there are very very few records for adoptions before then.

Most adoptions would be within the family, or circle of friends, or from an orphanage ....... which did not at that time necessarily mean that the child really was an orphan.


Basically, it means that you are unable to find any adoption that resulted in a change of name.


The more likely scenario is that his mother married some time after Isaac's birth, and he then used his step-father's surname

It is of course also possible that he then returned to his birth name after he left home



so we might have Isaac Hall birth information -----> Isaac ????? on 1 or 2 censuses ------> Isaac Hall on marriage and subsequent censuses!



It would cost £9.25, but it might be worth getting that 1849 birth certificate ....... at the very least it would rule out that Isaac, but it might just be the answer to the question.





sylvia

thanks, maybe cluthing at straws here but one of the witness' on the marriage cert is johnathan tippings - i have found a marriage for a john tippings to a jane hart cobridge staffordshire in 1857. more investigating and will get a copy of the 1849 birth cert asap. thank you

woohoo found isaac. on 1861 and 1871 census' as isaac tipton.mother jane hart as thought. Jonathan tipping was half-brother. strangely tipton changes later to tipping. isaac born bilston illegitamately along with two other siblings elizabeth hart 1852 (also on census' as tipton but married as hart) and john hart 1856.

GREAT!


That's good news .... thank you for updating us :-D

Hi I am Anthony Hart great grandson of the Issac Hart born Bilston that you are researching.

Regards A.J.Hart

Look at the date when jt last posted on this thread.............

.............then click on the name, and send a message.

If the member's e-mail is the same as it was last year, GR should send notification of your attempt to get in touch, although they haven't been doing so recently.