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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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18 Mar 2012 10:56 |
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I am posting this with little expectation that anyone can find anything...but I have to try!
OK Mary Ann was born 10 May 1853 and christened in Trowbridge on 19 June 1853, the daughter of James Marchant and Matilda - nee Martin I believe.
Matilda died in 1859 and in 1861 I find Mary Ann Marchant in Roath Cardiff as adopted Girl of William and Sarah Pratt. Sarah was James' sister Sarah Marchant. I then find what I think is Mary Ann as Mary Pratt a servant in Roath in 1871. And after that nothing.
I have not found a marriage or a death or any further censuses. Can anyone help?
As an aside, I have found James in Roath in 1871 as a boarder with James and Rebecca Gale - Rebecca is another sister Rebecca Marchant. And I lose HIM after this.
Any help gratefully received as ever :-)
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Gee
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18 Mar 2012 11:15 |
Jude
Where was she born
Trowbridge, Monmouthshire Trowbridge, Wiltshire
x
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Catherine
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18 Mar 2012 11:16 |
just for ref:-
1861 Wales Census about Mary Marchant
Name:Mary Marchant Age:9 Estimated Birth Year:abt 1852 Relation:Adopted Girl (Adopted) Gender:Female Where born:Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England Civil Parish or Township:Roath County/Island:Glamorgan Country:Wales Registration district:Cardiff Sub-registration district:Cardiff ED, institution, or vessel:26 Household schedule number:75 Piece:4039 Folio:40 Page Number:13 Household Members: Name Age William Pratt 30 Sarah Pratt 34 William Pratt 5 Alfred Pratt 3 Selina Pratt 1 Mary Marchant 9
...so although living Wales, she was born Trowbridge in Wiltshire.
and possible1871:-
1871 England Census about Mary Marchant
Name:Mary Marchant Age:19 Estimated Birth Year:abt 1852 Relation:Servant Gender:Female Where born:Devizes, Wiltshire, England Civil parish:Thatcham Ecclesiastical parish:St Marks Town:Henwick County/Island:Berkshire Country:England Registration district:Newbury Sub-registration district:Thatcham ED, institution, or vessel:6 Household schedule number:103 Piece:1247 Folio:88 Page Number:42
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Gee
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18 Mar 2012 11:20 |
Australia Marriage Index, 1788-1950 Name: Mary A Merchant Spouse Name: John Melling Marriage Date: 1872 Marriage Place: New South Wales Registration Place: Tenterfield, New South Wales Registration Year: 1872 Registration number: 3574
This is from a tree on A but the info is conflicting with the marriage record above and the mothers name?
Birth: 10 May 1853 - Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England Marriage: 9 Nov 1870 - Tenterfield, New South Wales, Australia Death: 14 Jun 1943 - Tenterfield, New South Wales, Australia Parents: James Butler, Amelia Woodleigh Turner Spouse: John William Melling
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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18 Mar 2012 11:24 |
Gins, Catherine..yes sorry...being lazy. I should have said "she was born in Trowbridge Wiltshire and christened in....." All of the Marchants were from Trowbridge and it seems that first Sarah and then sisters Maria and Rebecca all moved there. And at one point so did their parents James and Maria. In fact Maria died there and afterwards, before returning to Trowbridge, James (senior) and his new wife Selina lived there.
I don't think the 1871 one above (Catherine) is her - I think this is her
Name: Mary Pratt Age: 18 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England Civil parish: Roath Ecclesiastical parish: Roath Town: Roath County/Island: Glamorgan Country: Wales Registration district: Cardiff Sub-registration district: Cardiff ED, institution, or vessel: 27a Household schedule number: 257 Piece: 5366 Folio: 132 Page Number: 53 Household Members: Name Age Edward Whiffen 52 Sarah Whiffen 43 Maud Whiffen 8 Arthur Whiffen 7 Kate Whiffen 6 Elizabeth Whiffen 4 Martha Jones 20 Mary Pratt 18
Jude
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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18 Mar 2012 11:25 |
Gins - yes seen this Australian connection - and the photos. But the marriage was in Australia when I am sure Mary (as Pratt) was in Cardiff. And the parents are wrong (in this tree)....I just think they have latched onto the wrong christening!
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Gee
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18 Mar 2012 11:26 |
Australia Death Index, 1787-1985 about Mary Ann Melling Name: Mary Ann Melling Death Date: 1943 Death Place: New South Wales Father's Name: James Mother's Name: Matilda Registration Year: 1943 Registration Place: Tenterfield, New South Wales Registration number: 13490
I reckon the tree owner has got their knickers in a twist! This looks like her :-D
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Catherine
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18 Mar 2012 11:29 |
............there's also this 1871??
1871 England Census about Mary Marchant
Name:Mary Marchant Age:18 Estimated Birth Year:abt 1853 Relation:Visitor Gender:Female Where born:Semley, Wiltshire, England Civil parish:Putney Ecclesiastical parish:St Mary County/Island:Surrey Country:England Registration district:Wandsworth Sub-registration district:Putney ED, institution, or vessel:10 Household schedule number:72 Piece:717 Folio:55 Page Number:18 Household Members: Name Age Silas Marchant 28 Sarah Marchant 23 Mary Marchant 18
........just to rule this one out, does her father, James, have any connection to a Silas Marchant?
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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18 Mar 2012 11:33 |
.does her father, James, have any connection to a Silas Marchant? - not that I am aware of.
Marchants in Wiltshire are many (as you are finding!!)....I am as confident as I can be that Mary Pratt in Roath in 1871 - born crucially Trowbridge Wiltshire is her. But after that I have searched under both Marchant and Pratt to no avail. And much as I'd like the Australian connection to be her I remain to be convinced.
Jude
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Gee
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18 Mar 2012 11:35 |
Jude
She could have sailed just after the 1871 census. That death I posted has the correct parents
Another tree!
Birth: 10 May 1853 - Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England Death: 14 Jun 1943 - Tenterfield, Nsw (New South Wales), Australia Parents: James Merchant, Matilda Neale
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Gee
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18 Mar 2012 11:45 |
Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922 about Melling Name: Melling Birth Date: 1873 Father's Name: John Melling Mother's Name: Mary Ann Birth Place: New South Wales Registration Year: 1873 Registration Place: Tenterfield, New South Wales Registration number: 19429 Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922 about Sarah Matilda Melling Name: Sarah Matilda Melling Birth Date: 1875 Father's Name: John Melling Mother's Name: Mary Ann Birth Place: New South Wales Registration Year: 1875 Registration Place: Tenterfield, New South Wales Registration number: 20325 Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922 about Mary Ann Melling Name: Mary Ann Melling Birth Date: 1876 Father's Name: John Melling Mother's Name: Mary Ann Birth Place: New South Wales Registration Year: 1876 Registration Place: Tenterfield, New South Wales Registration number: 20990 Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922 about Emma Eliza Melling Name: Emma Eliza Melling Birth Date: 1879 Father's Name: John Melling Mother's Name: Mary Ann Birth Place: New South Wales Registration Year: 1879 Registration Place: Tenterfield, New South Wales Registration number: 24118 Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922 about George Melling Name: George Melling Birth Date: 1880 Father's Name: John Melling Mother's Name: Mary Ann Birth Place: New South Wales Registration Year: 1880 Registration Place: Tenterfield, New South Wales Registration number: 25320 Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922 about Rosana Melling Name: Rosana Melling Birth Date: 1882 Father's Name: John Melling Mother's Name: Mary A Birth Place: New South Wales Registration Year: 1882 Registration Place: Tenterfield, New South Wales Registration number: 28233 Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922 about Ellen J E Melling Name: Ellen J E Melling Birth Date: 1883 Father's Name: John Melling Mother's Name: Mary A Birth Place: New South Wales Registration Year: 1883 Registration Place: Tenterfield, New South Wales Registration number: 30881 Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922 about John W Melling Name: John W Melling Birth Date: 1885 Father's Name: John Melling Mother's Name: Mary A Birth Place: New South Wales Registration Year: 1885 Registration Place: Tenterfield, New South Wales Registration number: 33324
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Flip
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18 Mar 2012 12:12 |
The parents from the last tree Gins posted I think were married Sept/1840 Clerkenwell. There is also a Mary A with Matilda Marchant in Kensington on 1861 census - so that tree could have got it wrong as well. Sorry, dont have a sub to post the census though,
Forgot to add, there is a birth for Mary Ann in Q2/1853 Wandsworth, so I think the tree owner has got marriages confused.
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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18 Mar 2012 12:39 |
Flip thanks...Just to confirm...this is my reasoning...
This is the marriage of James Marchant and Matilda Martin
Name: Matilda Martin Date of registration: Apr-May-Jun 1851 Registration district: Melksham Inferred County: Wiltshire Volume Number: 8 Page Number: 653 (click to see others on page)
Melksham being the GRO for Trowbridge I believe.
Then this is the christening
Name: Mary Ann Marchant Gender: Female Birth Date: 10 May 1853 Christening Date: 19 Jun 1853 Christening Place: Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England Age at Christening: 0 Father's Name: James Marchant Mother's Name: Matilda
And this is Matilda's death
Name: Matilda Marchant Date of registration: Apr-May-Jun 1859 Registration district: Melksham Inferred County: Wiltshire Volume: 5a Page: 74 (click to see others on page)
And then eighteen months later this is the 1861 census
Name: Mary Marchant Age: 9 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852 Relation: Adopted Girl (Adopted) Gender: Female Where born: Trowbridge, Wiltshire, England Civil Parish or Township: Roath County/Island: Glamorgan Country: Wales Street Address: View image Condition as to marriage: View image Education: View image Employment status: View image Occupation: View image Registration district: Cardiff Sub-registration district: Cardiff ED, institution, or vessel: 26 Household schedule number: 75 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 4039 Folio: 40 Page Number: 13 Household Members: Name Age William Pratt 30 Sarah Pratt 34 William Pratt 5 Alfred Pratt 3 Selina Pratt 1 Mary Marchant 9
Sarah Pratt = Sarah Marchant James' sister
Jude
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Gee
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18 Mar 2012 12:48 |
1901 New South Wales, Australia Census Name: Mary Ann Melling <<<<49 years old Locality: Tenterfield Sub-District: G Population Boundary County: Clive District: Tenterfield
I think the only way to go is to send for that marriage certificate
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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18 Mar 2012 13:18 |
I have just had a very good look at the two trees that have her in them....some dodgy assumptions going on! I am not sure what the marriage certificate would tell me though that might pinpoint her as being MY Mary Ann?
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Gee
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18 Mar 2012 13:21 |
I think Oz marriage certs have both parents names listed, including the mothers maiden name
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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18 Mar 2012 13:23 |
Gins - thanks. I have a cousin (on my mother's side) in Newcastle NSW...I've messaged her to see if there's anything she can see that I can't!! It would be lovely if it WAS her :-)
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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17 May 2013 18:18 |
OK Many moons later :-)
I recently sent for the will of James Ames Marchant - my great great grandfather and the father of James.
He made his will in 1876 whilst living in Cardiff and owned four houses there. He bequeathed three of these to his three daughters who had moved to Cardiff - Sarah (Platt) Maria (Llewellyn) and Rebecca (Gale). He also made bequests to his sons Alfred and James and his daughter Dorcas (Knowles). Dorcas - and a sister Angelina who died - were late additions to the family (based on the 1841 census in which Maria the mother was recorded as Sarah) so this is the first real proof that she is MINE!!!
Anyway, I digress....so James was alive and kicking in 1876 - I could not find him in 1861 and after 1871 - when I found him with sister Rebecca - I had not found him again. And in the event James died, Mary his daughter was to inherit his share. So she too was alive in 1876 - though where I do not know :-)
Also, brother Alfred - not sure if I had another thread on him??? I have him in 1841 (recorded as William :-S) and 1851 and then he disappears. There are several Alfreds which might be him - but as I pointed out in this thread, there were an awful lot of marchents in Wiltshire!) But he too was alive in 1876...
Any eyes as always greatly appreciated! :-)
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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1 Nov 2013 17:29 |
Firstly I have two separate but connected (if that makes sense) threads so rather than keep two going I am trying to connect the other one here (please bear with me guys and gals...ooeer too much Jimmy Savile!!)
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1277207?page=1
OK I am having one last throw of the dice to see what I can find out about what happened to James and daughter Mary Ann. I am no further on with them than I was in May. The other thread has helped with brother Alfred. So to concentrate on James and Mary Ann...
James Marchant son of James Ames MArchant and Maria Trolop christened 14/12/1828 at St James Trowbridge Wiltshire.
1841 census (scholar) Mortimer Street Trowbridge 1851 census cloth spinner Mortimer Street Trowbridge 20 April 1851 (don't know where I got date from :-S ) married Matilda Martin (daughter of James and Mary Martin) Mary Ann born 10 May 1853 in Trowbridge Wiltshire and christened at St James' 19 June same year. Q2 1859 Matilda dies in Trowbridge 1861 census Mary Ann in Cardiff with Sarah Pratt (james' sister) - no sign of James 1871 James in Cardiff as a boarder - now a coal trimmer - with Rebecca Gale - his sister. Mary Ann (as Pratt) in Cardiff
Thereafter NOTHING....can't find any marriages any deaths any emigrations :-(
So as I say one final throw of the dice to see if anyone can find anything that we have all missed before. If not, it's to bed with this one as one of life's unsolved mysteries!
Crucially I know James and MAry Ann were alive in 1876 though I don't know where either of them were.
Jude
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HeyJudeB4Beatles
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24 Jul 2015 15:07 |
OK 18 months on and I am still stuck on this one!
Only "new" thing is that Mary "Ann" was actually born Mary Clara and then baptised a month later as Mary Ann.
I have studied some of the "Australian" trees in great detail and have concluded that they are prone, in the main, to some speculation
The first child was born in Longford Somerset, the second in Nottingham and the third in Grantham Lincolnshire (all attested by 1851 census in Lincolnshire)
The five siblings born after Mary Ann were all born in Australia.
On a photograph of the death entry, James was said to have been in the colonies for 13 years when he died in 1865...meaning he arrived in 1852. And a private photo of the passenger list for Fleetwood & Francis arrival Australia 18 July 1852
The headstone for Mary Ann melling gives her year of birth as 1857. I know the 10 May 1853 is not her as I now have the certificate.
So I really think all the Australian connection can be ignored.
But what of Mary Ann after 1876 when I know she was alive and still unmarried. Any new eyes greatly appreciated!
Jude
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