Find Ancestors

Hi There,

Not sure if this can be of assistance,

I have in my possession after my Grandfathers death probate wills for

John William Davidson Knight of:
2 Orchard Street, Portman Square
29 Sepha Road, St Johns Wood
& Prospect House, Saint Albans where he is listed as dying on the 13th June 1866

Also Sarah Knight

Their Children are listed as:

Sons:
John William Knight
Henry Edmund Knight
Edwin Knight
Edmund Knight
Daughters:
Isabella Knight
Susannah Knight
Cathrine Knight
Juliana Knight
Emily Knight
Georgiana Knight


My Grandfather worked as Caretaker of Dominion House, St Bartholomew Close, London. At the time of working there (1960's roughly) we believe that there was a Vaughan Knight Living there.

There is also a reference to the Bombay Baroda & Central India Railway Company.

Hope this might be helpful.

There is this:

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Name: John Knight - Porter of Grange Court, Casey St
Age: Full Age
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Spouse Name: Sarah Ann Mead - 6 Union St, Marylebone
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 17 Jul 1838
Parish: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: Wm Knight - Shepherd deceased
Spouse Father Name: Jonathan Mead - Saddler, deceased
Witnesses: Thomas Higgs X(his mark) & Mary Laven Higgs
Register Type: Parish Register


1841 England Census
Name: Mary Higgs
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil parish: St Marylebone
Hundred: Ossulstone (Holborn Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street Address:Seymour Place, No 18

Occupation: Dressmaker

Registration district: St Marylebone
Sub-registration district: St Mary

Piece: 679
Book: 6
Folio: 5
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Thos Higgs 40 - J. Harness maker [Perhaps known by Jonathon, the saddler?]
Mary Higgs 30
Thos Higgs 5


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Thomas Higgs
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1835
Baptism Date: 18 Oct 1835
Father's Name: Thomas Higgs - Harness Maker of Prospect Place
Mother's Name: Mary Higgs
Parish or Poor Law Union: St George the Martyr
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Reviewing 1861: "Ignore Private, Army Hospital Corps". That one was born 1838.

The 1861 where your John is with his parents. He could have been home on leave. I've been trying to decipher the age and occupation with no luck. Also trying to make him a soldier or anything that could relate him to the army. The writing is so faint that I can't make it out.

I'm still trying to find him in 1841. He may have been left off in error. However the 1841 census was done on the 7 June which would make John 5 months. This makes 'S' being 11 months impossible. As 1841 doesn't give relationships she could be a relative rather than a daughter.

Another problem with 1841 (although address and occupation fit exactly with baptism) is that his father was born out of county, and his mother is born in county which is the opposite of 1851 & 1861. I guess there could be a mistake.

Ozi

From http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2007/11/02/the-forgotten-story-of-londons-porters/

The full-time porters were regulated by the City of London, and divided into two groups, the Fellowship Porters, who carried “measurable” goods (grain, coal, salt and the like) on and off ships moored in the Thames and in and out of warehouses, and the Ticket Porters.

The Ticket Porters, who wore a pewter badge carrying the arms of the City, a cross and a dagger, were subdivided into two themselves, the waterside Ticket Porters, who dealt with all ship-borne cargoes the Fellowship Porters did not carry, and the Street or Uptown Porters.


and from http://yourdemocracy.newstatesman.com/parliament/fellowship-porters-london/HAN517922

"The fellowship porters were the remains of an ancient body in the City of London. They had their origin several centuries ago, in connection with the privileges of the corporation of London. The corporation claimed the right of measuring all goods that came by the river Thames into London. The fellowship porters were appointed to do the measurement; and the corporation directed that they should pay one penny out of every shilling they earned," 1863


and again from http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-barnettporter.html

"All these boats and wagons needed to be unloaded. That job fell to the market porters. Historically, different grades of porter had existed, and in the mid-nineteenth century that was still the case. The most privileged were the 40-100 (it was seasonal work) Fellowship porters, so-called because they were Freemen of the City of London with residence qualifications (a throwback to the medieval days of the City Guilds). They had the right to carry from the ship to the market all fish or shellfish sold by the tale (number). Next, the Ticket porters had exclusive rights to carry dried fish such as herrings. For this they were able to charge 1 ½d per box. Below these were three types of unprivileged porters totalling about four hundred in number. Those known as ‘foreigners’ were paid to receive the fish unloaded by the Fellowship porters. In contrast ‘bobbers’ were sent out of the market with fish to distribute to local customers. Bottom of the pile were the ‘roughs’, casual labourers who would do any job required of them. That primarily involved helping railway staff to unload the wagons."

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Eliza Ann Knight
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1843
Baptism Date: 28 May 1843
Father's Name: John Knight
Mother's Name: Sarah Knight
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark St Saviour
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

Image has born 27 July 1842, father a Fellowship Porter of Bedford Row.

Looking at the image of the baptism Rutland Belle posted, it actually has he was born 3 Jan 1841. Father was a Fellowship Porter of New Park Street.

So the 1851 certainly looks like him.

This is his family in 1841, but where is he?

1841 England Census
Name: J Knight
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Gender: Male
Where born: Surrey, England
Civil parish: St Saviour
Hundred: Southwark
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address: Emerson Terrace, Park Street [A few pages back it is referred to as New Park Street, then N Park Street, eventually just Park Street. It is always followed by con'd.]

Occupation: F Porter

Registration district: St Saviour
Sub-registration district: St Saviour

Piece: 1088
Book: 3
Folio: 14
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
J Knight 30
S Knight 30
S Knight 11 MO - daughter; Not born in county. [Marylebone perhaps?]

????
Deaths Sep 1843
KNIGHT Sarah St. Saviour 4 331
Deaths Sep 1847
Knight Sarah S Saviour 4 377

????
Deaths Jun 1859
KNIGHT Eliza Ann St Olave 1d 40



" ...he always states that he was born in Marylebone. That of course could be the first place he remembers as his Eliza was born there" Who's Eliza? His sister? 1851 has her born St Saviour.

Thank you all for all your input. fantastic!
I have his marriage information, he married in New Zealand, but at this time neither parents information was on the certificate.
I can trace all his movements from his joining the army to his death, but other than his fathers name on the death certificate, I have nothing on his parents.
On his army papers he stated that he was 19 years and no months on the 28th June in 1859. He could have lied about his age to enter the army, not sure of legal age for this.
Because John Knight is such a common name, he is hard to trace! I believed that John and Sarah could be his parents, but that didn't fit with his age at time of Army registration. This has him born Jan 3 1841.
On the census form 1851 with John and Sarah, it has John with a sister, but it does not appear that she is being researched.
Sadly on everything else he did in his life he didn't put in a date of birth.
I didn't have the info on the 1861 census and I'm fairly sure this could be him except that it doesn't mention on his papers that he spent time in the hospital corps! and in future docs he always states that he was born in Marylebone. That of course could be the first place he remembers as his Eliza was born there! I noticed on his demob papers he calls himself Sergeant Major "William" Knight, but signed docs as John. so names are interchangeable in 1896.
I'm keen on Sarah and john as his parents, but just wish Eliza was being researched!

Do you think this could be him?

1861 England Census
Name: John Knight
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Gender: Male
Where born: St James, London, England
Civil parish: Aldershot
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Occupation: Private Army Hospital Corps

Condition as to marriage: Single

Registration district: Farnham
Sub-registration district: Frimley
ED, institution, or vessel: Medical Department Lee and Aldershot Camp
Piece: 431
Folio: 65
Page Number: 6

Then comes a page full of army personel.

Looks like the marriage cert is the only way.

Ozi

OK, let's work from this.


1871 England Census
Name: John Knight
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Anne Knight
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England [Doesn't help, does it?]
Civil parish: Woolwich
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Woolwich
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Occupation: Sergeant R.E.

Registration district: Woolwich
Sub-registration district: Woolwich Arsenal
ED, institution, or vessel: Royal Engineer Barracks <<<<

Piece: 786
Folio: 105
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
John Knight 30
Anne Knight 23 - born Ireland
Anne Knight 5 - born New Zealand
John Knight 3 - born Aldershot, Hampshire

Yanna posted that he joined the Royal engineers in London in 1859 and went to New Zealand until about 1867, so should not still be with his parents in 1861 in this country?

Deaths Sep 1862
Knight Sarah St Olave 1d 26

This is a possibility as Southwark & Newington are adjacent.
Marriages Dec 1868
Knight John Newington 1d 281
Lakeman William Newington 1d 281
Matthews Emma Maria Newington 1d 281
WALSH Catherine Newington 1d 281


1871 England Census
Name: John Knight
Age: 56
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1815
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Catherine Knight
Gender: Male
Where born: Christchurch, Surrey, England
Civil parish: St John
Ecclesiastical parish: St John
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 16 Thomas St

Occupation: Labourer

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St John Horsleydown

Piece: 625
Folio: 59
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
John Knight 56
Catherine Knight 42 - born Dublin, Ireland

1851 England Census
Name: John Wm Knight
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John Knight
Mother's Name: Sarah Knight
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Southwark, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Southwark St John Horsleydown
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address: 14 Freeman's Lane

Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St Olave

Piece: 1559
Folio: 285
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
John Knight 35 - Fruit ____er[?]; born Christchurch, Surrey
Sarah Knight 36 - born Wales
John Wm Knight 10
Eliza Ann Knight 8 - born St Saviour, Surrey




1861 England Census
Name: John Knight
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Knight
Gender: Male
Where born: Christchurch, Surrey, England
Civil parish: Southwark St Olave
Ecclesiastical parish: St Olave
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address: 48 Weston St

Occupation: Grocer's Carman

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: St Olave
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 99
Piece: 316
Folio: 112
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
John Knight 45
Sarah Knight 48 - born Pontypool, Wales
John W Knight 40 - Son; Grocer [I think]; born St Saviour Surrey. The age has been scrawled over so difficult to decipher. Though relationship is definitely 'son'.

1864/3759 Ann Best John William Knight Order Product

You can buy the marriage cert from here and should give you details of his parents

https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Search/Search.aspx?Path=%2fqueryEntry.m%3ftype%3dmarriages#SearchResults

Children of John William Knight and Ann Best


Annie Knight
Daughter
1865
Napier

died1900-05-16
Auckland

John Isaac Knight
Son
1867-08-31
Aldershot, Surrey, England
1904-02-16
Auckland

William James Knight
Son
1871-05-16
Woolwich

died 1872
Woolwich

Alice Helena Knight
Daughter
1873-01-17
Woolwich



Ada Knight
Daughter
1875
Kent



Mary Knight
Daughter
1880

baptism

Name: John William Knight
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1842
Baptism Date: 15 May 1842
Father's Name: John Knight
Mother's Name: Sarah Knight
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark St Saviour
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers

someone has a John William Knight in a tree on Ancestry, married Ann Best 1864 Napier. Episcopalian Church , died Oct 1904 Auckland .his parents given as John and Sarah Knight and his birth as 1841 Southwark Surrey

Name: John William Knight
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1841
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Inferred County: London, Surrey
Volume: 4
Page:
488

Yanna, , did he marry? If so you may have to get a marriage certificate as it is a fairly ordinary name and you really need his father's name which the cert would give.

Did he ever marry?
There are several possible John William Knights showing - how sure are you of the August 1840 in Marylebone as none fit these facts?
Thanks