Find Ancestors

Hi, this may be a bit late but, I am the great-grandaughter of Alexander Rudkin 1868(ish) and my grandfather was Alexander Rudkin (1911 Belfast). I've been researching to get birth/marriage certificates etc. for this side of the family and came across this thread...
Can anyone advise if there is a link with my grandfather and Dorcas Magill? My great grandfather did marry Margaret Magill and was listed as a heating engineer. They moved to Liverpool.
I'm also curious about Angela Sharp nee Rudkin who has commented on here, are we related?
Thanks for any help, Pamela Allen-Rudkin

Hi, Dorcas Magill is my Grandfathers sister, who he never got to meet. Elizabeth, I have messaged you. Margaret Magill did indeed marry Alexander Rudkin.

Regards

Angela Sharp nee Rudkin

so that's been said at least four times now ... maybe Elizabeth will get the 'message' :-)

I would certainly like to know what you think of the Rudkins and Magills in Belfast in the Irish censuses and birth records Elizabeth !

I would actually call what our combined efforts have produced here a very probable breakthrough ...

Hi Elizabeth - thanks for your message - don't be afraid to reply on here - it's best that you do rather than send messages :-)

Ann X

I sent Elizabeth a pm on 21.10. and a reminder of looking at her replies on 22.10. She has just sent me a pm stating that 'there are no breakthroughs as yet'. I have strongly urged her to reply on here as she has some excellent researchers helping her! :-D


Cx

I don't think we have this in the thread just for the record

Name: Dorcas Magill
Registration District: Belfast
Event Type: BIRTHS
Registration Quarter and Year: Oct - Dec 1909
Estimated Birth Year:
Age (at Death):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Film Number: 101072
Volume Number: 1
Page Number: 387
Digital Folder Number: 4194691
Image Number: 00596

this is the certificate that shows Margaret Magill as her mother ?


looking forward to seeing your replies in the thread !
( another PM received saying Elizabeth is reading through the info I posted above )


and here is an interesting birth

name: Alexander Rudkin
registration district: Belfast
event type: BIRTHS
registration quarter and year: Apr - Jun 1911
volume number: 1
page number: 409
digital folder number:

too late for the census it seems ! but I would guess that Margaret Rudkin in the 1911 census is Margaret Magill and is the mother, using the father's surname

and this must be his death

Name: Alexander Rudkin
Birth Date: 19 Apr 1911
Date of Registration: Jan 1997
Age at Death: 85
Registration district: Knowsley
Inferred County: Merseyside
Register number: C33
District and Subdistrict: 0231C
Entry number: 188

well I think this is interesting !

1901 census

Residents of a house 8 in Churchill Street (Dock Ward, Antrim)

> Rudkin Alexander 32 Male Boarder Church Ireland ... heating engineer ( so born abt 1868 )
Boyes Elonor Dorcus 9 Female Daughter Church of Ireland
Boyes Edward 45 Male Father Church Ireland
Boyes Annie Elizabeth 41 Female Mother Church of Ireland
Boyes Alexander Fredrek 3 Male Son Church of Ireland
Boyes Edward P 11 Male Son Church of Ireland


that is out of order, Alexander is listed at the end

he is a heating engineer, can anyone figure out what it says for his marital status ? 'Single' is crossed out ... it doesn't seem to say 'not married' ...

he is born Liverpool ( as is the Boyes couple )


there are two Margaret Magills in the same place


Residents of a house 184 in Hillman Street (Dock Ward, Antrim)

> Magill Margaret 15 Female Daughter
Magill Elizabeth 12 Female Daughter
Magill Hugh 41 Male Head of Family
Magill Alexander 9 Male Son
Magill Frederick Victor Male Son
Magill Hugh 14 Male Son
Magill Jessie 25 Female Wife


Residents of a house 235 in New Lodge Road (Dock Ward, Antrim)

Hamilton James 38 Male Brother
Magill Harriet 11 Female Daughter
> Magill Margaret 40 Female Head of Family
Ryan Johanna 18 Female Niece
Magill John H 13 Male Son


and now here is Alexander in 1911

Residents of a house 3 in Ravenhill Street (Ormeau, Down)

Boyes Edward 54 Male Head of Family
Boyes Edward 21 Male Son
Boyes Eleanor Dorcas 19 Female Daughter
Boyes Alexander Fredrick 13 Male Son
Rullier Alexander 43 Male Boarder ... heating engineer, single

it says 'Rudkin' on the image and has been mistranscribed



I certainly think this is the right track

there is even a Dorcas in that household :-)

Elizabeth you have this person in your family tree

Alexander Rudkin 1890 Ireland


is this just on spec or do you know something ?


several people have these in their family trees

Alexander Rudkin 1869 Liverpool Merseyside
Alexander Rudkin 1886 Liverpool

( there is no birth like 1886, only 1868 and 1901, in the English births index )

have you contacted any of them ?

message from Elizabeth


No my mother is unexplainably absent from 1911 census.
I've tried all possible names I can think of.
Thanks for replying,
Elizabeth


Elizabeth, please see my post above and please reply in the thread, the 'add your reply' box at the bottom

I wonder about any responses to some of the posts in the thread here

particularly about the Margaret Rudkin in 1911 in the Irish census shown as married ...

there is no Rudkin husband for her in that census

obviously it is a guess that the Margaret Magill who married Alexander Rudkin in 1918 is the right person, possibly a wrong guess

and there are definitely two Rudkin Magill births -before- that marriage

so that Margaret Rudkin in the 1911 census just seems a little coincidental

pm from Elizabeth (have explained about replying on here):

"Yes I've tried the 1911 census , but Dorcas is not listed there.
There is only one Margaret Magill listed who would be suitable - b. 1893 but she doesn't seem to be on 1901 census.
I believe Margaret's family lived in Glenwherry or Shamrock ST.
Elizabeth"

for the Magill Rudkin couple

this is about the only available Alexander Rudkin death

Name: Alexander Rudkin
Birth Date: abt 1869
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1963
Age at Death: 94
Registration district: Prescot
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10f
Page: 222

and that suggests this death for wife Margaret

Name: Margaret Rudkin
Birth Date: abt 1875
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1955
Age at Death: 80
Registration district: Prescot
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10f
Page: 198

... by 1916 she was 41 ...


there is also

Name: Margaret Rudkin
Birth Date: abt 1884
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1937
Age at Death: 53
Registration district: Liverpool South
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 79

perhaps she is more likely Margaret Bimson who married Frederick Rudkin in Toxteth Park 1903 ... yes there is a birth for that name 1884


Births Sep 1868
RUDKIN Alexander W. Derby 8b 301

there is no previous marriage for him to explain the delayed marriage to Magill

in 1891 he is a heating engineer visiting in a household in Durham, says single, born Toxteth Park ... I am not seeing him in 1901 or 1911 ...


there is no Margaret Magill birth in England to match the death record of the Margaret Rudkin born abt 1875


I wonder whether this person is interesting in the 1911 Irish census

Residents of a house 12 in Crossley Street (Pottinger (part of), Down)
boarding with a family named Orr
Rudkin Margaret 31 Female Boarder Co Antrim ... married one year

do you know what happened to Dorcas after birth ? she doesn't seem to be in the 1911 Irish census with mother Margaret

this could help identify Margaret, if we know how to find Dorcas in 1911 ... would she be under a different surname ?

Try searching the (free) Irish 1901 and 1911 census
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

not a lot of help really :-(

Margaret McGill
Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958
birth: Apr - Jun 1887 Belfast


name: Margaret McGill
registration district: Belfast
event type: BIRTHS
registration quarter and year: Apr - Jun 1887
volume number: 1
page number: 332
digital folder number: 4193975

There is a marriage between a Margaret Magill and a Alexender Rudkin in Toxteth Liverpool Q2 1918 ref 8b 307

There are 2 Rudkin/Magill births on free BMDs
1913 West Derby
1916 Toxteth

Hello, Elizabeth - when and where was MArgaret born? Do you know anything more about her, like parent's names.

Have you searched the Irish Census for 1911?

Can anyone help me find my grandmother Margaret Magill? She gave birth to my mother, Dorcas Magill on 30th Sept. 1909 in Belfast. She may have gone to Liverpool.
Elizabeth