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Ruth
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4 Apr 2013 22:25 |
Hi Jill Don't know if you know this. Check out oldbaileyonline.org and look for reference t18480821-1933 This is for Mary Spry and her daughter Mary Ann Dore trial transcripts mention Princess Sophia and the steward working for her. (no name given apart from spry). I'm researching for my undergraduate dissertation on criminal poisonings. The 2 women were charged with murdering Mary Ann's daughter (4 months) using poison. They were found not guilty.
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Jill 2011 (aka Warrior Princess of Cilla!)
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13 Oct 2011 12:22 |
And now I can't spot them on the 1851 !! I will sort through my notes as I'm sure I have seen them there ...
Jill
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Jill 2011 (aka Warrior Princess of Cilla!)
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13 Oct 2011 12:15 |
Hi Kim
The family in 1841:
Louisa Spry Age: 15 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Gender: Female Where born: Middlesex, England Civil parish: St George Hanover Square Hundred: Westminster County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street Address:
Occupation: View image Registration district: St George Hanover Square Sub-registration district: Belgrave Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 732 Book: 7 Folio: 39 Page Number: 19 Household Members: Name Age Mary Spry 40 Mary Ann Spry 15 Elizabeth Spry 15 Louisa Spry 15 Thursa Spry 12 Alfred Spry 5 Samuel Spry 4 Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 732; Book: 7; Civil Parish: St George Hanover Square; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 23; Folio: 39; Page: 19; Line: 5; GSU roll: 438834.
Jill
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Kim
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12 Oct 2011 16:48 |
Hi Jill
Whereabouts in London? I'm having a little difficulty in pinning them down....
BWs
Kim
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Jill 2011 (aka Warrior Princess of Cilla!)
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12 Oct 2011 12:52 |
Hi Kim
Mary and the children are in London in 1841 and 1851.
I've eliminated John being with Princess Sophia in 1841, so I'm assuming he is somewhere on his own. He could be in residence at another posh house I suppose and it's likely that he's mistranscribed as Spry is not that easy to read on the old documents.
I've no idea where he might be in 1851 as Princess Sophia had died in 1848 and never got on with Queen Victoria so I assume that John was no longer "in" with royalty ... could be wrong but until I find him I'm sort of relying a bit on gut feeling.
Thanks for your help.
Jill
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Kim
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11 Oct 2011 19:18 |
Hi Jill
Yes - on the London Marriages and Banns 1754 to whenever on Ancestry but I don't think they have all of the churches in the Westminster area. Do you have the census references - where did Mary say she was born in 1851? I did find baptisms for a number of children born to John (a servant) and Mary.
It's possible, I suppose, that he may have been at one of the other Royal residences on census nights, or maybe the story is an apocryphal one.
Best wishes
Kim
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Jill 2011 (aka Warrior Princess of Cilla!)
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11 Oct 2011 17:08 |
Hi Kim
Have you found those on the parish records? I must be searching badly. I'll go and have another hunt ...
I believe they were both born in Devon. Mary was plus the first 4 children then the rest were born in London - around St Geo Hanover Square.
Mary and the children were in London in 1841 and 1851.
Many thanks
Jill
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Kim
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10 Oct 2011 14:46 |
There's also a marriage at the same church on 25 Jan 1821 between John Spry (a widower) and Mary Dibble. John has a middle name which has been transcribed as "Brah" but which looks much more to me like "Crah" or even "Crap"
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Kim
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10 Oct 2011 14:41 |
There's a marriage on A*try for a John Spry and Mary Ann Winship at St George Hanover Square on 3 Sep 1826
Right sort of location for a servant in one of the grander establishments. Whereabouts were Mary and the children in the census, Jill?
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Jill 2011 (aka Warrior Princess of Cilla!)
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10 Oct 2011 13:32 |
Hi Barry
Yes, I've seen that tree, but I'm not 100% convinced as there is another tree showing a marriage to a different Mary.
Also, I think it's this tree that shows the family in Devon in 1841 with John as an Ag Lab, which I know is not right.
There is a child born to the family in the 1840s which will help with Mary's surname, but it's frustrating not being avle to find the chap in 1841 or 1851.
Thanks for looking though ...
Jill
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Barry
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7 Oct 2011 16:21 |
From an Ancestry tree - could this be him?
John Spry b 1789- (no place on record) died 10 April 1858 Chelsea(ST Lukes) married to a Mary Elson b 1801 KENTON Devon died 1872 St George's Hanover Sq London Children Elizabeth Susan b Exeter Louisa b Middlesex Mary Ann b 1827 Exeter - d 1880 Lambeth Theresa b 1830 Chelsea William b 1832 London Alfred Francis b 1835 London - died 1891 London Samuel John b 1837 Brompton Middlesex - died1881 Wandsworth Surrey No parents for John or Mary on tree
Marriage from familysearch.org John Spry to Mary Elson 16 July 1819 St Peter's Exeter Batch no M050902-1 Most of the above childrens' births are on familysearch with addition of Elizabeth who maybe a twin of Louisa
The family, with the exception of John can be found on the 1841 census by searching for THURSA Spry(mistranscription of Theresa) b 1830 Middlessex
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Jill 2011 (aka Warrior Princess of Cilla!)
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7 Oct 2011 13:42 |
Oh thank you all ... I feel like I can finally make a bit of headway. Even if he's not with Sophia in 1841 it gives me reason to go on looking for him on his own so it all helps.
Never thought I'd find myself looking for members of the royal family!
Thank you
Jill
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rootgatherer
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7 Oct 2011 13:40 |
And in 1841
Name: Queen Victoria [Victoria of The United Kingdom] [Alexandrina Victoria Von Saxe-Coburg-Gotha] [Alexandrina Victoria Von Hanover] [The Queen] Age: 20 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821 Gender: Female Where born: Middlesex, England Civil parish: St Martin in The Fields Hundred: Westminster County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street Address:
Occupation: View image Registration district: St Martin in the Fields Sub-registration district: Charing Cross Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 740 Book: 9 Folio: 3 Page Number: 1 Household Members: Name Age Queen The Queen 20 Hrh Prince Albert 20 The Princess Royal 6 MO Earl of Aboyne 45 George Thos Keppell 40 Edward Praetorius 30 Thomas Batchelar 55 Augustus Fredk Gerding 40 William Peel 20 George Wakeley 50 Thomas Hill 40 Isaac Cart 30 Andrew Dekler 30 Thomas Cooper 25 Charles Woolger 30 James Woods 30 Joseph Martin 35 Charles Benda 20 Henry Lawley 25 William Sheppard 45 John Wilde 40 William Weightman 40 Robert Renwick 40 James Atten 20 Charles Knott 60 Louisa Desyen 50 Harriet Lester 30 Amelia Matilda Murray 45 Mary Wakeley 45 Marianna Skerrett 40 Wilhelmina Singer 30 Jane Peandle 25 Rebecca Ward 15 Sarah Soushey 55 Ann Roberts 30 Jane Ratsey 30 Charlotte Whiting 15 Elizabeth Lindsay 30 Lucy Maine 35 Mary Ann Forss 30 Charlotte Colson 35 Elizabeth Brand 40 Ann Elizth Ashforth 35 Mary Ann Polbury 35 Elizabeth Ford 40 Sarah Chappell 25 Mary Jeffs 30 Ann Vaughan 5 Margaret Wingate 40 Hannah Hobbs 25 Eliza Mander 30 Catherine Wright 25 Ellen Lindsay 25 Elizabeth Smith 30 Sarah Farmer 30 Louisa Foeaker 25 Georgiana Collett 25 Mary Merrick 60 Elizabeth Edmonds 30 Mary Heath 35 Lucy Wing 30
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rootgatherer
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7 Oct 2011 13:38 |
Here is how Queen Victoria is List on Ancestry in 1851
Name: Her Majesty Alexandrina Victoria [Queen Victoria] [Her Majesty Alexandrina Victoria] Age: 31 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1820 Relation: Wife Gender: F (Female) Where born: Palace, Kensington [Kensington Palace, London] Civil parish: St George Hanover Square County/Island: Middlesex Country: England Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View image Registration district: St George Hanover Square Sub-registration district: Belgrave ED, institution, or vessel: 2 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 1 Piece: 1478 Folio: 645 Page Number: 19 Household Members: Name Age Her Majesty Alexandrina Victoria 31
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MaureeninNY
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7 Oct 2011 13:34 |
To find The Queen-look for:Edward Praetorius.
Maureen
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rootgatherer
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7 Oct 2011 13:34 |
Not any help I know but he is not living in Princess Sophia's household in 1841
Name: H Princess Sophia Age: 65 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1776 Gender: Female Civil parish: Greenwich Hundred: Blackheath County/Island: Kent Country: England Street Address: Rangers House
Occupation: View image Registration district: Greenwich Sub-registration district: Greenwich East Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 489 Book: 1 Folio: 40 Page Number: 25 Household Members: Name Age H Princess Sophia 65 Alicia Gordon 50 Elizth Powel 45 Rone Kavanagh 25 Caroline Bovay 25 Robt Drury 46 John Gardner 45 Mary Roberts 44 Martha Clayton 35 Susan Male 26 Elizth Winter 25 Ann Griffith 46 Sarah Roether 37 John Cackeril 40 Thos Matthews 36 Henry Woollett 30
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Jill 2011 (aka Warrior Princess of Cilla!)
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7 Oct 2011 13:22 |
Hi All
I am chasing an elusive ancestor John Spry (born c.1800 - probably in Devon). During the 1840s he was steward / butler to Princess Sophia - one of Queen Victoria's aunts. It's probable that he was working for her in 1841. The family were living in London by then.
(I've found his wife Mary and most of the children in 1841 and in 1851 but no sign of John. I believe he died in 1858.)
Princess Sophia was living with Queen Victoria in Kensington Palace when she died in 1848.
So, simple question. How do I find either Princess Sophia or Queen Victoria in 1841? How do I look for royalty on the censuses?
Many thanks
Jill
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