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Ray, you may have noticed that this thread is now over 3 years old and Heather is probably not returning to look at it. If you click on Heathers name you will be able to send her a Personal Message via Genes as long as they have a current email address for her.

Hi Heather,
I have been researching the Penny family and in particular the family of Thomas Penny b 1811. Thomas and Louisa Strickland were married at Templecombe 08/04/1834 although they both lived in Horsington and had a son Jasper Strickland Penny a couple of months later and baptised at Horsington 29/06/1834. They had 6 more children, including Kitty b 1842 (according to the 1851 census) but they were not baptised until the day of Louisa's own burial when all 6 were 'done' together.One can only speculate that Louisa may have been upset by careless remarks about her first pregnacy. Within a few months of Louisa's death, Thomas married Eliza Wigmore. of Stoke Trister and had five more children. In the 1881 census, Thomas and Eliza have the 9 year old Samual Bagley living them at Hern House Horsington. Thomas died in 1902 aged 91. Phew!
I expect you know all this. Just a thought though: My grandmother (who I never met) Martha Penny developed cancer in 1918 but lingered on until she died in 1923. During that period my dad and his youngest brother were sent to family in ..Wincanton to be looked after. Perhaps little samuel was being looked after by his Granny in similar circumstances?
Curiously Thomas Penny was buried in Wells in 1902. Why Wells? Were the Bagley's there looking after grandad ?
Ray Penny

Hi Heather,

so this is the son William;

1891 England Census
about William Bagley
Name: William Bagley
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Hereford, Herefordshire, England

Civil parish: Horsington
Ecclesiastical parish: Horsington
Town: South Cheriton
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Wincanton
Sub-registration district: Milborne Port
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Hillier 54
Lucy Hillier 53
William Bagley 13


1881 England Census
about William Bagley
Name: William Bagley
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Relation: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Horsington, Hertfordshire, England

Civil parish: Horsington
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Street Address: South Cheriton
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Wincanton
Sub-registration district: Milborne Port
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
William Hilliar 45
Lucy Hilliar 43
Eva Hilliar 11
Ellen Hilliar 8
Agnes Hilliar 5
William Bagley 3


And William and Lucy's marriage;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1865 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hilliar William Wincanton 5c 831
JOHNSTON Thomas Wincanton 5c 831
Penny Lucy Wincanton 5c 831


1851 England Census
about Lucy Penny
Name: Lucy Penny
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Thomas Penny
Mother's Name: Louisa Penny
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Horsington, Somerset, England

Civil parish: Horsington
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Wincanton
Sub-registration district: Castle Cary
ED, institution, or vessel: 5b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 6
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Penny 40
Louisa Penny 36
Jasper Penny 6
Lucy Penny 14
Samuel Penny 12
Ketty Penny 9
Ellen Penny 6
Caroline Penny 4
Ann Warren 45


I doubt that there were 2 different Richard Bagley's and Kate Penny's having children around that time...... Kate seemed to take years off her age, this was possibly for work purposes.


Dee x

Oh, but I did - for some time, and come back to it as you see!

Thank you everyone. This started when I had a contact email via tribalpages. My contact is a descendent of Kate's son, William who incidentally was born several years after the Richard's death but still has him on the certificate and baptismal register as father!

I'm very encouraged by the baptism of Samuel Edward as my contact says both boys were born in Herefordshire. I have birth index for both in Wolverhampton.

While it's possible that Kate & Richard were married by the 1871 census, it's more likely that they weren't since the census date that year was 2nd April. I've tried finding her with all variants of her name, including blank searches on Christian & surname.

I'm beginning to wonder if there weren't 2 Kate pennys & Richard bagleys, though 2 such marriages might be strething it a bit!

I think I'll ask him if he has their marriage certificate - also I'll get him to send me an invitation to his tree.

Many thanks, all you wonderful 'bloodhounds'!
Heather

Oh well done all!

Shame Heather did'nt stay with her thread.

A couple of possible deaths for Richard;


Deaths Sep 1874 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BAGLEY Richard 32 Reading 2c 187



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Dec 1878 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BAGLEY Richard 36 Hull 9d 146

1891 England Census
about Kate Bagley
Name: Kate Bagley
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Horsington, Somerset, England

Civil parish: Adwell
Ecclesiastical parish: Adwell
Town: Adwell
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: House keeper

Condition as to marriage: Widower

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Thame
Sub-registration district: Lewknor
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Eleanor D B Reynardson 73
William J Borek Reynardson 41
Violet B Reynardson 25
Marion L B Reynardson 40
Violet M B Reynardson 8/12
Henry E Trevor 44
Kate Bagley 41
Flora Slade 31
Margaret Price 24
Sarah Osborne 18
Eliza Smith 18
Edith Smith 15
Annie Gransfield 30
William Constable 42
Ernest Ponsford 16
William Tice 58
Fredrick March 22

1881 England Census
about Kate Bagley
Name: Kate Bagley
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: South Churton, Somerset, England >> Cheriton on image

Civil parish: Bishopstone
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England

Street Address: High St
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: House Keeper

Registration district: Highworth
Sub-registration district: Swindon
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Hazard Parker 69
Josh.M. Parker 29
Kate Bagley 33

1891 (Samuel still with Grandfather)

PENNY, Thomas Head Married M 79 1812 Carpenter
Horsington
Somersetshire
PENNY, Albert J Son Married M 30 1861 Carpenter
Horsington
Somersetshire
PENNY, Bessie Daughter In Law Married F 29 1862
Henstridge
Somersetshire
PENNY, Albert S Grandson Single M 2 1889
Horsington
Somersetshire
BAGLEY, Samuel Grandson Single M 19 1872 Painters Apprentice
Wolverhampton
Staffordshire
WIGMORE, Lucy Granddaughter Single F 10 1881
Redhill
Surrey

RG number:
RG12 Piece:
1902 Folio:
67 Page:
1

Registration District:
Wincanton Sub District:
Milborne Port Enumeration District:
6 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Horsington

Civil Parish:
Horsington Municipal Borough:
Address:
Marsh Road, Horsington County:
Somersetshire

Chris :)

Thought I would check out Clarence Street in 1871 although the houses aren't numbered which is annoying, but living there is a William Bagley, Ironmonger's Porter born Sutton Maddock Shropshire. So he could be a brother to Richard

260 RANSFORD, Henry Head M 25 1846 Staffordshire VIEW
260 RANSFORD, Mary Wife F 24 1847 Staffordshire VIEW
260 RANSFORD, John Ed Son M 0 1871 Staffordshire VIEW
>>>260 BAGLEY, William Lodger M 38 1833 Shropshire VIEW


Civil Parish:
Wolverhampton Municipal Borough:
Wolverhampton Address:
Clarence Street, Wolverhampton County:
Staffordshire



He appears with Richard in 1851 with their parents in Sutton Maddock although his birth year is a few years different I'm sure it is the same one

Name Age
John Bagley 52
Elizabeth Bagley 40
John Bagley 20
William Bagley 14
Elizabeth Bagley 10
Richard Bagley 7
Mary Bagley 4
Mary Dodd 70

Something happened rather quickly after the wedding, surely?

Well something happened???

1881 England Census
about Samuel Bagley
Name: Samuel Bagley
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England

Civil parish: Horsington
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England

Street Address: Hern House
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Wincanton
Sub-registration district: Milborne Port
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Thos. Penny 70
Eliza Penny 51
Albert Penny 20
Samuel Bagley 9


Name: Samuel Edward Bagley
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 22 Oct 1871
Baptism/Christening Place: St. Mark's, Wolverhampton, Stafford, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace: 4 Clarence Street
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Richard Bagley
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Kate
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C01944-6
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1517620
Reference Number: item 2 p 395




Dee x

I even looked on trees on Ancestry.

Well I have looked for her under the names of Kitty Penny/Bagley. Kate Penny/Bagley. Kate Penney/Bayley and still no luck.

If she was a servant I wonder if they would change her name if she had married. Did they call her Kate or Kitty or Kit????? Unless she is on a missing census................................

I found the free bmd marriage.
I just wanted to know if she is Penny or Bagley on 1871 census as Heather has put Penny.

Patchem heres their marriage.

I looked on London Marriages but can't find it.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about Richard Bagley Name: Richard Bagley
Year of Registration: 1871
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun *******
District: St George Hanover Square
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 569

So she was Kate Bagley in 1871 if he was already married?
The census took place on 2 April, what is the exact date of marriage from the marriage certificate?
Thanks

Is this him in 1871 please. He is a coachman and married on this census and a Boarder.

1871 England Census
about Richard Bagley Name: Richard Bagley
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1843
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Sutton, Shropshire, England
Civil parish: Castle Church
Ecclesiastical parish: Forebridge St Paul
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Stafford
Sub-registration district: Castle Church
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 87
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Evans 33
Sarah E Evans 6
Richard Bagley 28 ****************b Shrop Sutton.
William Greensmith 53
Mary A Evans 10

Nothing showing for 1871...
Have tried 1881 1891, but no luck, so far.

Find My Past Passenger Lists start at 1890, so could be a bit too late.

Chris :)

edits, unless you have them on later Census...