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Marcus
Hi, I picked this thread up looking for something else & had to ask did you finally find all the information that you were looking for re John Brown
Cheers
Flo

Marcus as Gerri said earlier, you will have to provide some information.

If you are at 1930ish, you will need to find birth & marriage certs of the family line you think may be connected.

Once you hit 1901 it should be fairly easy to trace back through the censuses.

Ozi.

Marcus

Put John's mum Margaret Leys in the search box there are quite a few Margaret Leys all born in Scoltand around the right time even Crathie so the tree owner may be able to help you more. The only other way would be to work your way from his parents marriage on Scotlands People tracing birth and marriages to the date that you want. Images on Scotlands People for births are I think there up to 1908, marriages 1933 and deaths up to 1958 after these dates you would need to order certificates.

Jackie

Edit

Tree owner Jean DiMaio looks like she may be the best person to contact.

Thanks to all who have replied!

Any info on bringing this tree forward - ie descendants to, say, 1930's?
Hopefully not too impossible.

Marcus

Have found him on SP date is 19 October 1875 parents are down as Donald and Janet ms Shaw and death was again registered by son
Hugh Brown (Farmer Bush)

Aha...also in Crathie gaveyard..


"8. Here lie the remains of JOHN BROWN sometime farmer in Bush of Crathienaird d. at Wester Micras 18th October 1875 aged 86 and MARGARET LEYS his wife d. Craiglourigan Cottage 2nd August 1876 aged 77. Also of their 5 children FRANCIS d. 1st March 1831 aged 3, FRANCIS d. 27th November 1849 aged 10, MARGARET d. 12th December 1849 aged 14, CHARLES d. 27th December 1849 aged 17, ANNE d. 1st November 1867 aged 37. This stone is erected in affectionate remembrance of his parents, brothers and sisters by JOHN BROWN."

And in the very next grave...

"9. This stone is erected in affectionate and grateful remembrance of JOHN BROWN the devoted and faithful personal attendant and beloved friend of Queen Victoria in whose service he had been for 34 years. Born at Crathienaird 8th December 1826 d. at Windsor Castle 27th March 1883. That friend on whose fidelity you count, that friend given you by circumstances over which you have no control, was God's own gift. Well done good & faithful servant etc. (4 lines text)"

Gravestone erected by John Browns father and uncle for their parents in Crathie Churchyard:

"1827. Erected by JOHN & JAMES BROWN in Crathinaird in memory of their father DONALD BROWN d. in Rinechat aged 73 and his spouse JANET SHAW d. 10th December 1836 aged 85"

http://www.geocities.com/girnocgordons/Leys4CharlesLeys-MayFleming.html
This website seems to confirm that Jacqueline, and has a history of John Browns maternal ancestors. Other websites have his paternal grandparents as Donald Brown and Janet Shaw.

Richard
Margaret died on 2 Aug 1876 but it says on death cert widow of John Brown which would suggest that he died before 1879 her father was noted as Charles and her mother Marjory but maiden name if not very clear F.....ing is all I can make out which would tie in with May Fleming on the previous births I copied and pasteddeath occured at Crathienaird Cottage Balmoral. she was noted as being 77 and the informant was son William

Jackie

His parents John and Margaret are also on the 1861 and 1871 Census. She died in 1876 he 1875, both in Crathie. Their death certificates, being Scottish ones, should give their parents names and take you back a generation further, but you would need credits at Scotlands People to view them.

From google

Four of his 8 brothers were also in royal service. James, the eldest, born 11/15/ 1825, moved to Australia, only to return to Scotland and become a shepherd on the Balmoral Estate. Donald, born 9/9/1832 was the porter at Windsor Castle and Keeper of the Queen's Lodge at Osbourne. Hugh, born 12/21/1838, moved to New Zealand and returned to Scotland as well to become the Keeper of Her Majesties Kennels at Windsor Castle and an Attendant on Victoria after John's death. He died from complications from alcoholism in 1896. Brown also lost 3 siblings in the typhoid epidemic of 1849. Charles (b. 1831), Margaret (b. 1834) and Francis (b. 1839). Another younger brother, William, was gifted with tenancy of a farm at Tomidhu by Queen Victoria. John's youngest sibling was christened Archibald Anderson Brown - Archie for short. He was born 9/6/1841 making him 22 or 23 when John came to Balmoral in 1864. He began his service as a footman at Balmoral in 1863 and was promoted in 1865 and again in 1868. He served as valet to the semi invalid Prince Leopold, Duke of Albany, the Queen's youngest son, who suffered from hemophilia. The appointment was done personally by the Queen. Archie was deemed big enough, strong enough and trustworthy enough to pick the sickly prince up and carry him to safety should the need arise. Leopold was a mere 10 years younger than his young Scottish servant. Archie too was bold and sharp tongued apparently, like his brother. A fight ensued between Archie and Lieutenant Walter Stirling, an officer in the Royal Horse Artillery. Stirling had been appointed as Prince Leopold's new governor and apparently was a bit brusque and over bearing. The details of the fight or lost to history, but in the end Stirling was dismissed, despite interference by Major-General Sir Howard Elphinstone. Archie was not beyond pranks either, and used to smack the his young charge on the cheeks with a spoon for fun. He eventually became Page of The Royal Presence and died in 1912 at the age of 71

William his brother married and Elizabeth Paterson on 16 Jan 1869 her parents are noted as John Paterson and Janet Syc..... sorry too hard to read but they were married in the parish of Crathie it looks like her usual residence was Mains of Monaltic Crathie, mother is not noted as Paterson ms..... so it doesn't look like they were married. Sorry no more credits left to search anymore
Apparently Jophn was the second of eleven children. Happy hunting.


Jackie

Had a look for Margarets birth as surname not too commom but cannot find anything between 1798-1815 these are the births I did find
31/12/1804 LEYS ANNE CHARLES LEYS/MAY FLEMING FR153 F Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0010 0195 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
2 07/02/1801 LEYS BARBREW CHARLES LEYS/MAY FLEEMING FR151 F Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0010 0191 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
3 01/06/1800 LEYS CHARLES JAMES LEYS/MARGARET FARQUHARSON FR150 M Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0010 0190 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
4 01/06/1800 LEYS CHARLES JAMES LEYS/MARGARET FARQUHARSON FR297 U Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0010 0190 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
5 02/08/1812 LEYS CHARLES CHARLES LEYS/MAYE FLEEMING FR156 M Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0010 0201 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
6 05/08/1804 LEYS CLEMENTINA JAMES LEYS/MARGARET FARQUHARSON FR297 U Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0020 0008 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
7 18/09/1810 LEYS FRANCIS CHARLES LEYS/MAY FLEMING FR155 M Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0010 0200 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
8 22/11/1802 LEYS HELEN CHARLES LEYS/MAY FLEMING FR151 F Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0010 0192 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
9 03/07/1814 LEYS JOHN CHARLES LEYS/MAY FLEEMING FR157 M Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0010 0203 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
10 12/09/1808 LEYS MARY CHARLES LEYS/MAY FLEMING FR154 F Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0010 0198 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
11 28/09/1802 LEYS WILLIAM JAMES LEYS/MARGARET FARQUHARSON FR297 U Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0010 0192 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
12 28/09/1802 LEYS WILLIAM JAMES LEYS/MARGARET FARQUHARSON FR151 M Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0010 0192 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER

not much use unless you can trace her parents name from somewhere I am afraid

Jackie

Well done girls! Jacqueline and Christiner!

Now Marcus...

All you have to do now is....follow each branch of those children in the 1851 census untill you find a match to your own tree!....
How far back have you gone on your own tree?
It wont be CHEAP at £7 per BMD cert to find the match.

1851 census.
John Brown 24 ..b.1827
Ann Brown 21 . b.1830
William Brown 16 .b.1835
Hugh Brown 12. b. 1839
Archibald Brown 9. b.1842

How serious are you about finding out if your related? Cos this is how it's done. Theres no short cuts! Sorry

Gerri x

Parents marriage on Scotlands People

1 25/08/1825 BROWN JOHN MARGARET LEYS/FR340 M Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0020 0088 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER

No parents details are given on marriage extract

Jackie

Going with the census info above I have found

No Date Surname Forename Parent Names/Frame No. Sex Parish City/County GROS Data Image Extract
1 20/10/1829 BROWN ANNE JOHN BROWN/MARGARET LEYS FR307 F Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0020 0028 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER

1 26/03/1835 BROWN WILLIAM JOHN BROWN/MARGARET LEYS FR312 M Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0020 0039 VIEW (5 CREDITS

so I would say its a safe bet that this is the correct family


Jackie

Same family in 1841.....

1841 Scotland Census
about John Brown
Name: John Brown
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Gender: Male
Where born: Aberdeenshire, Scotland

Civil Parish: Crathie and Braemar
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: Crathinand
Occupation: Farmer
Parish Number: 183
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Brown 50
Margaret Brown 40
James Brown 15
John Brown 14
Ann Brown 12
Charles Brown 10
Donald Brown 9
Margaret Brown 7
William Brown 6
Francis Brown 4
Hugh Brown 2
Margaret Reoch 20 ......F S

Brown was born in Crathie, Aberdeenshire, to John Brown and Margaret Leys, and went to work as an outdoor servant (in Scots ghillie or gillie) at Balmoral Castle which Queen Victoria and Prince Albert purchased in 1853.


Possible?......

1851 Scotland Census
about John Brown
Name: John Brown
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1791
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name: Margt
Gender: Male
Where born: Crathie, Aberdeen
Parish Number: 183
Civil Parish: Crathie and Braemar
County: Aberdeenshire
Address: Bush
Occupation: Far (of 20 Acres & 100 Of Hill Pasture Employ No Lab)
ED: 2
Page: 5 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 13
Line: 6
Roll: CSSCT1851_43
Household Members: Name Age
John Brown 60
Margt Brown 51
John Brown 24
Ann Brown 21
William Brown 16
Hugh Brown 12
Archibald Brown 9

Chances are that this is his birth as surprisingly there is only one John Brown born at Crathie in 1826 and the date of 8 December is a match for the date on google

The actual extract does not give much more info other than the fact his father was a farmer in Crathienaird and that his parents were married.


1 08/12/1826 BROWN JOHN JOHN BROWN/MARGARET LEYS FR303 M Crathie and Braemar /ABERDEEN 183/ 0020 0021 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER

Hi Marcus

You could try putting a thread on here asking for a birth look up in Scotland?

Crathie (Aberdeenshire)

I havent a clue how far back Scottish records go but it's worth an ask?

Good luck

Gerri x