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If Mary was born 12th Dec 1858 and Married late Dec 1876 she would have been 18. She may have wanted to appear older at the time of marrying but as it's only a year out she might just have miscalculated or not known? If you go back to the 1971 Census info I provided you'll see that the children were born in different places including St Helens/Hapton/Padiham so you weren't on the wrong track searching in St.Helens if this is your family.
Julie x

if so ? why has familysearch site of the LDS... have Mary 's mother as McEwan and not Carnican..and possible siblings mothers name McEwan

scots birthlines has time on them.. mine has my time of birth
maybe thats just a scots thing then

is it possible that the Rebecca born glasgow a niece of Rebecca the mother..only asking as no rebecca's show on my side till after Mary is Married...and a parent wouldnt have two girls named Rebecca...but thanks to all who have now enlightened me on Mary's family..if it indeed is her family

thank you all

John as far as I know time of birth is only given if the baby is a twin. She was born at 4pm so possibly a twin to George! As Henry couldn't write they may have mistranscribed the surname.............................

hi Julie.. as it happens my mum had twins..to second hubby.. but twins meant to be every 2nd generation with us so ive heard..Mary was in Scotland before 1876 thats when she married my grt grandad..as to how and why..i dont know as of yet.. if her mum was born here..? maybe she stayed with her granparents or other relatives.. and she had a son called George who died as an infant..so yes.. Burnley Martin's could be family im looking for

info on birth cert i got in post

12th Dec 1858 4:00PM Albert Street St Helens

father Henry Martin..chemical labourer

Mother Rebecca Martin.formerly Carnican

X the mark of Henry Martin Father Albert Street St Helens..nothing about twins

wether any of this helps you i dont know... there is Martin's in Liverpool Road.Great Crosby... but i think that Rebecca is a Moorcroft.

as i stated i only have limited info on Marys family and thats what i found on her wedding cert..so anything else people have found for me is a bonus..and untill now..St Helens was right place to begin search... now it seems Burnley may be right place to search...if you find different..then ill go with your info... been looking for months for Mary's family and have had little or nothing to go on..so armed only with info from wedding cet i began search.. Mary was 19 at last b/day when she married. in 1876.. so on that pretext i recond she born bout 1857..my grt grandad was born in 1856 and aged 20 at last b/day,.. so birth in 1858/9 or later i dismissed..... hope this helps you... it didnt do me much good in my search...lol but thanks..you info will be noted and delved into if burnley falls flat

Ann have you got a Cd with all that info on ? What about George and Mary?

I meant the Henry one being a Furnace tenter.................I'm typing too slow.....

Oooooh where did you get that from ann? Looks very promising!

William?

Baptism: 6 Dec 1868 St Leonard, Padiham, Lancashire, England
William Martin - Son of Henry Martin & Rebecca
Abode: Padiham
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: J H Fox Curate Vicar
Register: Baptisms 1847 - 1873, Entry 2166
Source: LDS Film 1040344

Samuel james (of Hapton) baptism - Henry seems to have the right occupation

Baptism: 27 Jan 1867 St Leonard, Padiham, Lancashire, England
Samuel James Martin - Son of Henry Martin & Rebecca
Abode: Padiham
Occupation: Furnace Tenter
Baptised by: J H Fox Curate
Register: Baptisms 1847 - 1873, Entry 1991
Source: LDS Film 1040344

If the mother is the informant of the birth and can't write the name could be mistranscribed. I have searched for the origins of the name 'Carnican' and found nothing. It seems to be so rare as to be almost non existant. Only found 3 entries of it on the ancestry site and googling produced 1 entry!

thanks janice - did not know that one

In case this is the correct family here's a bit more info

Rebecca junior appears to have married a John Thomas Hargreaves in 1873 (source FreeBMD) and they are living next door to her mother & siblings in 1881

1881 Census

Name: Rebecca Hargreaves
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John T.
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, Lancashire, England

Civil Parish: Padiham
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address: 44 Burnley Road
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Cotton Weaver

Registration district: Burnley
Sub registration district: Padiham
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age

John T. Hargreaves 28
Rebecca Hargreaves 24
Maud C. Hargreaves 5
Rennie R. Hargreaves 3

Elizabeth appears to have married Thomas Henry Walmsley in 1884
(Source FreeBMD) but he is widowd by 1891 living with Rebecca senior and his children

1891 Census

Name: Rebecca Martin
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, Scotland

Civil Parish: Padiham
Ecclesiastical parish: Padiham
Town: Padiham
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Burnley
Sub registration district: Padiham
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age

Rebecca Martin 60
William Martin 22
Thomas H Walmsley 46
Rebecca E Walmsley 5
Elizabeth A Walmsley 4

John got the maiden name from Mary's marriage cert.In Scotland they give more detail than English ones!

Where did you get Rebecca's maiden name of McEwan from - could this be wrong

Hi John
Just dipping in as I've been looking around a bit. When Janice first posted the 1881 Padiham family I tried to trace them back because Rebecca is down as widowed and I wanted to see if her husband was Henry. Here is the family in 1871



1871 England Census

about Rebeca Martin
Name: Rebeca Martin
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland
Civil Parish: Padiham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Leonard
Town: Padiham
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Burnley
Sub registration district: Padiham
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 192
Household Members: Name Age
Rebeca Martin 39 b Scotland
Elizabeth Martin 16 b Scotland
Rebeca Martin 15 b Scotland
George Martin 12 b St Helens
Robert Hy Martin 10 b St.Helens
Samuel Jas Martin 4 b Hapton
William Martin 2 b Padiham

Rebecca is down as 'Married' on the image -so where is her husband? And if this is Mary's family where is she?

The extracted records that Janice has found for William and Samuel James would seem to confirm that this Rebecca's husband is indeed a Henry.

I have searched and searched for this family in 1861 to see if Henry or Mary are there but I CAN'T FIND THEM ANYWHERE so anyone else care to try?? It may be significant that Robert Henry's birth was registered in the March Qtr of 1861 so Rebecca would have been heavily pregnant or have recently given birth at the time of the census. Maybe the family were staying with relatives?

FreeBMD

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1861 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MARTIN Robert Henry Prescot 8b __4

St.Helens came under Prescot
Hapton and Padiham came under Burnley

All the children born in England can be found on Free BMD and there are 3 Mary Martins born Prescot around the right time

Sep qtr 1856
Sep qtr 1858
Dec qtr 1858

If we are looking for a sister to George we can rule out the Sep 1858 one but they may have been twins in Dec 1858

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1858 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Martin George Prescot 8b 479
Martin Mary Prescot 8b 479

Got any twins in the family???!!

Ignoring the fact that the birth cert you have has the wrong maiden name can you give us the other details from it i.e date of birth....was there a time of birth (indicates one of a twin)... father's occupation.....did the mother sign her name or just mark with a cross......was it in a hospital or the workhouse......address of informant??? As much info as you can give might help to rule this family out or make them a good bet!

Julie x

thanks Janice...have now found a few of the Burnley Martin's on the igi with Rebecca McEwan as mother so will enquire more into them (have joined a burnley website and posted on their general chat.)... igi type Saint Helens..so i thot St Helens

so too other searchers forgive my ignorance

and a big thank you to janice.... for possibly turning me in right direction

Same place but no mothers surname but extracted records
1. WILLIAM MARTIN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 06 DEC 1868 Padiham, Lancashire, England
Parents:
Father: HENRY MARTIN Family
Mother: REBECCA

2. SAMUEL JAMES MARTIN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 27 JAN 1867 Padiham, Lancashire, England
Parents:
Father: HENRY MARTIN Family
Mother: REBECCA
1881 seem to be this family

Household Members: Name Age
Rebecca Martin 50
Elizabeth Martin 26
Robert H. Martin 20
Samuel J. Martin 14
William Martin 12
Name: Rebecca Martin
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Lanarkshire, Scotland

Civil Parish: Padiham
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Another submitted one but???

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Elizabeth Martin Pedigree
Female


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Event(s):
Birth: MAY 1888 Padiham, Saint Helens, Lancashire, England

Christening:
Death: 24 SEP 1888


Parents:
Father: Henry Martin
Mother: Rebecca McEwan