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Hi Janice... sure ive looked on that site before...think i even found a site with Martin names on it and emailed the persons interested and never heard back from them

heard tonight that my older brother and sister are going to a seance sometime this week..i said ask for Mary Martin and ask her who or where her family where from...pmsl...doubt ill get answer though...hahahaha

The address for Mary's birth in 12th dec 1858..sorry no number included

Albert St
ST Helens

What was the exact address on the birth cert for Mary that you have.
I think the fiches for 1861 in our CRO may be indexed by street name. As it is only 3 years or so after the birth it may be worth checking if they were still there but transcribed in a weird way. I did find one where the whole family were listed with the surname as the forename of the head on all transcripts but the original was correctly written

http://freespace.virgin.net/dave.risley/fhs/home.htm

Link to St Helens Townships family history society if you haven't seen this one?

Hi Julie x

i looked om free bmd and found 4 Mary Martins born 1856..Livepool..St Helens and West Derby areas..but not a great deal of info on there...even looked up marriages of Henry Martin and 1847 only few that i got coming up....ohh one can go off genealogy quite quick....pmsl...somewhere out there is info i need... just need too turn over right stone in a beach full,,,lol...night Julie x and others

Hi john. Just to let you know I haven't given up! Did another extensive search for St Helens/Burnley family in 1861 but no joy. I thought searching on Robert Henry was a good bet as his birth was reg March qtr 1861 and the Census was 7th April but he wasn't to be found.
If you look back at page 2 I posted birth's of 3 Mary's born Prescot (which covered St.Helens) one in 1856 and two in 1858.
Still looking............................
Juliex

Hi Ladies mwah

Lancashireann.... i looked on the Lancs BMD and searched for a Mary Martin born1857...none...also did as you did and found a Mary born 1858

so out of curiosity i did a search for a Mary born 1856...and sure enough there is a Mary SH/37/63 born then

so in theory ! ! ! there must have been other Martins there...although any Martin's found by yourself and others dont show a birth date of 1856 for a Mary
and so the plot thickens...lol

Thanks Janice..but if Elizabeth from Burnley Martin's, then most definately got family in Scotland as that Henry and Rebecca married there,and Henry was living with his mother there

Hi lancashireann ...i have a birth cert for a Mary from your list...i believe her and George to be twins..mother Rebecca Carnachan

have you tried sending for the certificate via the lancashirebmd.org.uk site? I gave you the deatils earlier but as they are probably now not easy to find I have printed them again.

on lancs bmd there are these martin's born St helen's 1858

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1858
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
>>>MARTIN George St Helens St Helens SH/45/17
MARTIN John Daniel St Helens St Helens SH/44/1
MARTIN Mary Ellen St Helens St Helens SH/44/17
>>>MARTIN Mary St Helens St Helens SH/45/16

The reference numbers for the George & Mary are consectutive.............?

From the occupations of Henry it sound like he was into possibly the St Helen's glass making industry. The other henry that keeps appearing as a brickmaker would probably never have described himself as a chemical worker which could be a reason for ignoring him for now.

IF it turned out to be the right Mary(i know its not right mothers maiden name?) then if she was a twin perhaps they sent her to rels. in Scotland to bring her up?? so they only had one baby themselves!!!
re more details of Elizabeth above if it helps you find her
Address: 125 Saltmarket
Occupation: Dealer
ED: 17
Household schedule number: 48
Line: 7
Roll: CSSCT1871_130
Household Members: Name Age
Omr Broadley 38
Margaret Broadley 30
Mary Broadley 12
Elizabeth Marcelin 14
Margt McGuillan 17

Morning Janice,

I was told by Julie thats how it worked in England , in Scotland time of birth on birthlines on all people..my time on mine..did search for that Elizabeth Marcelin but i didnt get any hits on her... though Scotlands People like that sometimes...lol ill try later maybe S P still asleep this early.hahaha

??1871 just wondered if this is correct name or error. I cannot open Scottish census on Ancestry to look.
Name: Elizabeth Marcelin
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relationship: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: England
Registration Number: 644/4
Registration district: Calton
Civil Parish: Glasgow St Andrew
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 125 Saltmarket
Occupation: Dealer
ED: 17
Household schedule number: 48


Looking back at posts i see the birth cert you have for Mary 1858 has a time on it. This in England means there was more than one child. The time was recorded so that they knew which was the oldest.

John someone has corrected a transcription errror on 1901 census for Samuel James Martin so i have emailed to ask if they have any info about his parents

gonna try a search for Martin's in Anderston area of Glasgow pre Mary's marriage... as tomorrow am away for weekend...mean later today...lol julie you know where ill be if you think i can help with any more info

Burnley Rebecca maiden name Carnachan/Carnaghan though

The informant on death cert was her husband John

Who registered Mary's death? Maybe they had access to her birth certificate or if they didn't have that perhaps it was taken from her birth registration?
The Burnley Henry is variously described as 'chemical worker', 'furnaceman' and 'labourer'

On Mary's death cert... Henry still down as Chemical worker furnaceman
dont know if its significant or not

No... thats fine julie... just remembered a Henry with a daughter...

John that's the Great Crosby family. I can post the info if you want or will that confuse the issue?