Find Ancestors

Anne -

It's 8 years since Yvonne posted on this thread, so she's unlikely to see your message.

Your best bet for contacting her is to click on her name at the top of her post, and send her a private message.
If she's still using the email address she registered with GR, she'll be notified that she has a message from you.

Yvonne, I have been asked by Grant Millar to tell you that he is related to you through the Millar family

He is unable to post here for some reason but would like you to get in touch.

He says, "Margaret McIntyre (nee Millar) was a relative of mine. I think there was a fire at Meigle Parish Church, which led to the loss of parish records - the birth record of my g-grandfather, William Millar (Margaret's brother), is also missing..

I have posted info about Margaret McIntyre on wikitree.

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Millar-1048 "

Thanks both Mhairi and Denis for these comments. I am hoping to travel north from the south coast - to visit Dundee next month, for a short break - so will find the tayvalleyfhs - maybe join - when I'm up there. Thanks Denis - good idea. As for Isabella Millar's name being on the marriage cert., as a witness then yes it just still remains a possibility that Jessie belongs, somehow, to this family but without the proof, we just will never know. The orphan idea is still a possibility. Looked at the census return myself last night and it is a possiblity - there are also two 18yr old boys with the name - Miller - who also show as being born in the same place (possible brothers to this little girl?) and neither living with family unfortunately. I so appreciate all help and ideas but if we have come to a brick wall then thanks again for all your efforts. You must be getting fedup with this quest.

Yvonne

Could be worth contacting a local FHS, such as:

http://www.tayvalleyfhs.org.uk/

Denis

I like a challenge :D

If only witness's had to put down their relationship with the people getting married, it would have helped a lot.

Will think on this one a little then get back to you.

Mhairi

Hi again Mhairi and alviegal!

Forgot to mention the other child that you have found for me! - James Miller Smith. That just hadn't occurred to me! I've just found the census return for them living in Dundee. Thanks both for all the information and your continuing interest and help.

Afternoon Mhairi, Apologies for not replying sooner - bedtime then volunteering duties! Not home long. Anyway I can't thank you enough for your time and effort in trying to help me solve my little problem!
Yes, I do have Jessie's death certificate - 7th Feb 1897. She died age 50yrs - states David Millar as her father (ploughman) deceased and Margaret Millar nee Forbes as her mother deceased also.
Yes, James was married previously and I think to a Margaret Roy, (although surname a bit difficult to read). Yes on the 1891 census there does seem to be 3 James's - and 2 daughter's of the same age - Mary could be Jessie's daughter, my gt grandmother (she was illegitimate) born to Jessie in 1876 - I have a birth cert - Mary Christie Millar. I have just double checked Scotlandspople to make sure James and Jessie did not have a daughter Mary and happily there doesn't appear to be one! Also just checked and found James and Margaret in the 1881 census but with no Mary.
Jessie and James married only a few months after Margaret Roy died and then had a son William - I have just checked and got his birth details.
On James and Jessie's marriage cert. - there is an Isabella Millar as a witness - could be a coincidence as there is an Isabella in the Perth family too.
Your idea of the child orphan sounds convincing though doesn't it? It certainly would answer the lost birth record mystery for Jessie.
Just don't know where to go next - any more ideas gratefully received if you have the time. I'm so grateful. Yvonne

This is the birth for above, James Miller Smith.



JAMES MILLER SMITH Pedigree
Male

Event(s):
Birth:
11 JUL 1870 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Parents:
Father: JAMES SMITH Family
Mother: JESSIE MILLER

Ok...could this be her...with son James Miller Smith (though transcribed as McSmith)

1871

Name: Jessie Miller
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1845
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Meigle, Forfarshire
Registration Number: 282/3
Registration district: St Clement
Civil Parish: Dundee
County: Angus
Address: 53 Dillfield Walk
Occupation: Dressmaker
ED: 20
Page: 34 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 205
Line: 18
Roll: CSSCT1871_51
Household Members: Name Age
James McSmith 8mo
Jessie Miller 26

...I have some possibles in the 1861 but...I really like the look of this one in 1851...contradicts the info on the marriage cert but she could have been telling some fibs...or just didnt know...or they (David and Margaret) where in some way related to her and it was better than putting nothing...

1851

Name: Jean Miller
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relationship: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Meigle, Forfarshire
Parish Number: 390
Civil Parish: Redgorton
County: Perthshire
Address: Redgorton Hill
Occupation: Pauper An Orphan
ED: 3
Page: 3 (click to see others on page)
Household schedule number: 7
Line: 9
Roll: CSSCT1851_81
Household Members: Name Age
Catharine Bell 70
Ann Cameron 3
Catharine Cameron 7
Christian Cameron 36
Donald Cameron 10
Duncan Cameron 5
Hugh Cameron 35
Jean Miller 4
Isabel Robertson 55

Have checked the 1861 and "Jean" is not with the Cameron family. She could have been put out to work.

Are there any Millar witness's on the marriage cert?

Hope I'm not confusing you even more
Mhairi

Been having a wee look into this, hope you dont mind.

Was James married previously? To a Margaret Roy?

Do you have a copy of the original 1891 census? I'm working with the transcript on ancestry, can you confirm that there are three James'?

The head, and two sons? Is the elder son (if he is there and not a product of ancestry's imagination) a possible son of Jessie's?

Also, was Mary the daughter of James and Jessie? Or just Jessie?

Regards
Mhairi

Yvonne,

Do you have her death cert? Does it list the same parents?

Mhairi

Thanks Mhairi, Very useful information - I didn't realise that only Church of Scotland records are with Scotlandspeople! My gt gt grandmother was born in Meigle - so it says on her marriage record and census returns - so maybe the first 2 children of the family being born in Blairgowrie were recorded - but when the family moved to Meigle, the church there didn't bother with recording births - hence the other children's births not being recorded. Scotlandspeople tell me they have Meigle records but it seems very odd that several children of this family have no birth records. I still have to verify that this is the right family!! A Jessie Millar born c1844 in Meigle just doesn't seem to be recorded -sooooo frustrating!! Thanks for your help.

Currently Scotlandspeople only has Church of Scotland records on their site.

If your ancestors ever used another church (to marry, baptise their children) it wont appear, nor will you be able to get any copies from Edinburgh or any LDS centre (microfilm ect).

Some Catholic baptism records are held at the National Archives of Scotland in Edinburgh and some are held by the Catholic Church Achives. I would imagine that there are a couple of other church records there as well but a lot of other church records didnt survive or where never recorded in the first place.

Another reason you might not be able to find an event in the OPR (barring damage, it being lost or not found yet) is that it never happened. Prior to 1855 the recording of BMD events was not compulsery and it was up to the discrestion of the minister. Some where strict while others couldn't care less.

Some BMD events where also recorded in the Kirk Session records (held at the NAS in Edinburgh). I believe (though dont quote me on it) that there are plans to get these digitalised and transcribed but, as with everything else, its going to take some time.

Hope thats of some help
Mhairi

Here's the marriage of her parents

DAVID MILLER Pedigree
Male Family

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:

Marriages:
Spouse: MARGARET FORBES Family
Marriage:
25 OCT 1835 Bendochy, Perth, Scotland



These, I think, are the two births you've found.


Husband

David Millar Pedigree

Birth: About 1812 Of, Blairgowrie, Perth, Scotland
Christening:
Marriage:
Death:
Burial:



Wife

Margaret Forbes Pedigree

Birth: About 1816 Of, Blairgowrie, Perth, Scotland
Christening:
Marriage:
Death:
Burial:



Children
1. Isabella Millar Pedigree
Female


Birth:
Christening: 20 MAY 1838 Blairgowrie, Perth, Scotland
Death:
Burial:

2. Robert Millar Pedigree
Male


Birth:
Christening: 08 APR 1840 Blairgowrie, Perth, Scotland
Death:
Burial:

I don't know how I would find that out Denis. Have emailed the archivist in Perthshire to ask about what churches were in existence at the time - but as yet no reply.

Hi

The OPRs are the records of the Established Church only. Any chance they used another church at some point? Unlikely I know.

Denis

Morning Denis,

Just wondered if all the Meigle records had been transcribed - clutching at straws I think!

Yvonne

Yvonne

You've mentioned a couple of times about searching records at Meigle. What records are you thinking of? All the OPRs for Scotland are in Edinburgh. That's how the official Scottish Govenment online site, ScotlandsPeople, was easily able to put the information online.

Denis

Yep! I am beginning to realise that my detective skills can't solve every mystery!!! - well not many actually! May try to get up to Meigle on holiday one of these days and search the OPRs but I am doubtful of a successful conclusion. Thank you so much for your thoughts, time and effort to help - I really appreciate it. Lol Yvonne

Hi Maureen,
yes I have found her marriage certificate - she married a James McIntyre in Dundee and this document shows her parents are a David Millar and Margaret Forbes.

A real mystery - I just can't find her birth.