Find Ancestors

I think I've exhausted all avenues I can think of in my attempt to locate birth details of Ginette Shama. My lastest research line has led me to think she may have been Israeli as I have discovered a number of Israeli women joined the WAAF during WW II. I have details of her service number etc.
Does anyone have any ideas if this could be possible, bearing in mind her nationality was given as English on her marriage certificate (she married in Egypt during the War).
I have tried 'findmypast' but cannot locate her birth details on that site either.
Any assistance would be much appreciated.
Sue

Are you next of kin or can you get next of kin's permission to order her service records?

On the marriage cert, what was her fathers name? Is 1917 given as her year of birth and who did she marry?

Shama sounds more Indian to me?

Shama births from freebmd

Shama Victor Emanuel Manchester 8d 376 Entry added since last update
Shama Victor Emmanuel Manchester 8d 376 Scan available - click to view
Births Jun 1904 (>99%)
SHAMA Mazal Prestwich 8d 385 Scan available - click to view

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Jun 1912 (>99%)
Shama Ezra L Cobley Stockport 8a 205 Scan available - click to view
Births Jun 1922 (99%)
Shama Regina Harari Chorlton 8c 1049

Marriages:

Marriages Mar 1898 (>99%)
Shama Victor Altrincham 8a 267 Scan available - click to view
Marriages Jun 1901 (>99%)
Shama Leopold Salford 8d 248

2 more with misspelling:

Births Jun 1924 (91%)
SHAMMA Celine HARATY Chorlton 8c 1056 Scan available - click to viewEntry added since last update
Births Mar 1925 (97%)
Shamma Marcel Harary Manchester S. 8d 58

Ginette married my dad (who has since died) during the war - he returned to England a while later. Ginette bore a son (my half brother) in 1946.
I found these details from my dad's service records which I was able to obtain (being his next of kin).
I have tried to obtain Ginette's records but unsuccessfully as I am not a 'blood relative' and am unable to trace her!!
Ginette's father was Ezra (occupation 'Cotton Classifier') who was pronounced as 'deceased' when she married. No luck there!!!
I agree Shama sounds Indian but it is also Syrian, Palestinian and Israeli.
I have checked all 'our' censuses for Shamas but none 'fit the requirements'.
Ginette was an Aircraft Woman First Class, so I've tried to get info. from WAAF but once again unsuccessfully.
I need all the help I can get!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kind regards
Sue

So the Ezra birth above - a possible brother?

To be honest Im drawn to the Shama births with the mother Harari (spelt in various ways) simply because Ginette is so very unusual - French - and the names given to the other children by this Harari lady are also French - Regina, Marcel and Celine?

I've contacted the Shama 'people' on this site (a couple of whom have the Harari connection) but only one has replied and he has disregarded Ginette, but I agree the 'French' link sounds possible!!!
I've had another look at marriage certificate and a witness was an 'Ida Shama' (was she a sister or maybe a relative who lived in Alexandria).
There was a Shama family who lived in Alexandria during the 1940s but 'my contact' stated Ginette was not known to any of them.
Yes I had thought that Ezra (born 1912) was a possible brother but why can't I find Ginette's details, did the family move out of England perhaps???????
So many unanswered questions!!!!
Kind regards
Sue

'My' elusive Ginette Shama gave her date of birth as 22 October 1917 at Alexandria when she enlisted in WAAF and upon her marriage certificate to my late father. She gave her parents' details as Ezra and Ida Shama.

My prolonged investigations have found a Jeanne Sciama was born on 22 October 1910 at Alexandria, her parents were Ezra and Ida (nee Mizrahi).

Shama and Sciama are variations of the same surname and Ginette and Jeanne are variations of the christian name.

It just appears too much of a co-incidence that the day and month are identical and parents' names are the same!!

There was also a son named Isaac born in 1914 to Ezra and Ida (nee Mizrahi) Sciama but, once again, I can find no further details of this birth or his subsequent life.

Any comments, suggestions or assistance would be much appreciated.

Kind regards
Sue

Hello Susan,

You could always order a copy of Isaac's birth certificate from this record:

Overseas registration event: Birth

Name: SCIAMA, Isaac
Mother's maiden name: Not available before 1966
Consulate: Alexandria
Country: Egypt
Year: 1911-1915
Volume: 13
Page: 802
Record source: GRO Consular Birth Indices (1849 to 1965)

Surely this would give the details of his birth?

Hello,

Many thanks for your comments.

I already have copies of Jeanne and Isaac's birth certificates which prove they were brother and sister (both being born to Ezra and Ida Sciama).

I somehow need confirmation that Jeanne and Ginette are one and the same person, I thought I may have had some verification if I could have made contact with perhaps a descendant of Isaac's).

Anything is worth a try .........

For our ref



UK, Foreign and Overseas Registers of British Subjects, 1627-1965

Name:Ginette Shama

Gender:Female

Birth Date:abt 1917

Marriage Date:14 Oct 1944

Marriage Age:27

Marriage Place:Alexandria, Sudan

Father:Ezra Shama

Spouse:Frederick Charles Rounsley

Spouse Gender:Male

Spouse Marriage Age:28

Father-in-law:Frederick Rounsley


Ida Shama is a witness to the marriage and there is also an Edgar & Ida Shama who appear on the London ER, living with them is Lela Shama

So, maybe Ida, born 1901(?) was the sister in-law to Ginette?

Hi,

Ginette was my late father's wife, I have a copy of their marriage certificate and have assumed one of the witnesses (Ida) was Ginette's mother.

My further assumptions are that Ginette Shama (allegedly born 1917) is the self same person as Jeanne Sciama (born on same day and month as Ginette but in 1910). This would 'tie in' with Ida being the mum!!! I know perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree but there does seem too many co-incidences!!

IF I'm correct in that Ginette/Jeanne are one person and Ezra and Ida are the parents: Ezra Isaac Sciama (a British subject, occupation broker, born 1881) married Ida Mizrahi (an Austrian subject born 1885) on 14th March 1907 and the marriage was registered with British Consul General, Alexandria.

Ezra Sciama's father was named as Isaac Ezra Sciama, a stock broker.

Ida Mizrahi's father was named as Yahouda Yehia Mizrahi, a merchant.

The witnesses to this 1907 marriage were V. Cipli and Raphael A. Khayat.

To revert to my late father's wife (Ginette) after he returned to UK in 1948 a letter and photos were sent to my paternal grandmother explaining that Ginette and her son (my half brother) would not leave Alexandria whilst Ginette's mother was alive (once again the assumption that Ida was the mother). To the best of my knowledge nothing was heard from Ginette since that date!

What a complicated scenario .............

I forgot to add that on my late father's marriage certificate (1944) Ginette (or perhaps Jeanne) stated her nationality as being British and her religion as Christian.

Hi Susan

She may have had British citizenship if her parents were born in Britain